Rank ATG Usyk, Wlad, and Vitali

But Wlad was agressively pursuing quality, that's why he beat all the best of the era willing to face him.

 

But you're forgetting Wladimir does have quality to go along with the quantity ?

And I don't see that Usyk's 3 Heavyweight opponents is that much better than some of the names on Wladimir's resume.

Again I don't see how someone like Dubois is necessarily rated above Byrd.

I'm not counting Haye's Cruiserweight fights to rank him as a Heavyweight. I'm saying on a P4P level Haye is on the same level as Joshua if you include his achievements at both weights.

Fury is the stand out win but Wladimir has many more wins over ranked Heavyweights and beat 12 undefeated fighters.

Saying Usyk beat 3 Heavyweights isn't to discredit him it's just a fact.

Usyk beat 3 very good Heavyweights but he hasn't got enough of a resume at Heavyweight to overtake long reigning champions like Holmes or Wladimir.

 

Wladimir & Vitali are brothers so it's quite obvious why they didn't fight ?

Why would anyone need that pointing out to them ?

Not mentioning it isn't biased its just plainly obvious what the answer is.

And why would Wladimir be blamed for not fighting his own brother ?

 

Heavyweight discussions really rule.

 

Nope. It is two different fights. The great rematches of the sport's history happened. They are rea. I have already named a few for you.

Wlad could have added Adamek, Juan Carlos Gomez, Solis...all guys his brother got. Even guys like Briggs would have done something to negate the knock against him that he couldn't beat physically big punchers.

ANd by the way, we haven't even gotten into his LOSSES against Purity, Sanders, and Brewster.

 

See above post.

 

Not the same LEVEL of quality.

"3 opponents" is not a thing. Six fights.

The argument could be made, but it's irrelevant, because Fury is, who Usyk beat twice.

Then he's nowhere near Joshua. You are saying that you are not counting them and them counting them in the same sentence.

Against lesser fighters than a guy Usyk beat twice. Also Joshua had a better title run than anyone Wlad beat.

In six fights. That is the important part being left out.

He beat the #2, #3, and #4 heavyweights in SIX fights. Holmes would have done well to give Witherspoon and Norton the rematches, and there were LOTS of guys he could have added to his resume.

 

I don't know what you're on about TBH.

You insinuated i'm being biased by not mentioning why Wladimir didn't fight his own brother ?

Well the answer is right there ? because they are brothers ? why would i need to mention it ?

Wladimir beat every available top contender he could fight.

 

Hey why no poll?

 

But Wlad beat tons of very good punchers that were far more dangerous than old Briggs. And he eat guys from lower weights (like Adamek and Gomez) alive

 

H2H : Usyk > Vitali > Wlad
P4P : Usyk > Wlad > Vitali
HW: Wlad > Usyk > Vitali

 

But you keep saying that but you're not actually backing it up with context.

I also don't agree that's your opinion not mine and i've already listed my reasons why which you haven't responded to.

Why is beating someone like Dubois a much better quality win than Byrd ?

Dubois was unranked and undeserving of a shot at Usyk in their 1st fight. Where as Byrd was ranked and was coming off a big win over Vitali when Wladimir faced Byrd the 1st time. So objectively the 1st win over Byrd is better than beating Dubois for the 1st time.

Both Wladimir and Usyk rematched Byrd and Dubois.

Byrd had been a champion for almost 4 years when he lost to Wladimir again. And Dubois had rebuilt himself with some solid wins.

Again is beating Dubois again automatically better than beating Byrd again ? And is Dubois rated higher than Byrd as a Heavyweight as his career stands today ? highly debatable.

Beating Joshua is better than beating Haye but i'd argue they are on the same level P4P wise. Especially when you include Haye's achievements at Cruiserweight, and a fight between Haye and Joshua in their primes would be close to a 50/50 match up.

I'll concede that Wladimir hasn't got a win on his resume that can compare to Fury, but i don't think that single name is enough to overcome all of Wladimir's resume.

It is a thing though.

Usyk and beaten 3 world class Heavyweights and 1 fringe contender.

Wladimir has beaten atleast 10+ world class Heavyweights.

That's quite a big difference.

Obviously Usyk's stand out wins over Joshua, Fury, are the highlights and the Dubois win could age very well we'll have to wait and see.

But again for me that's not enough of a vast resume to overcome a decade of being a champion. And i think you overlook that Wladimir does have quality aswell his resume isn't all filler.

That's because you're not understanding my point.

Usyk's status and legacy is built on what he achieved at Cruiserweight and Heavyweight.

The achievements in both weightclasses are why he is rated how is today.

I'm saying what Haye achieved at Cruiserweight/Heavyweight he is definitely on the same level as Joshua.

No his Cruiserweight fights don't count towards his Heavyweight ranking but it does count in terms of his P4P standing.

And as i said Haye/Joshua would be on a very similar level in that regard.