If Muhammad Ali Fought Lennox Lewis At Their Respective Peaks..?

Cool beans - anyone who's studied Frazier's two handed body attack wouldn't likely call him a one-handed fighter.

There's plenty of threads where your commentary about Ali is contested. I've seen you fail to explain or define what skill is on numerous occasions, preferring to go for sweeping generalisations that fight footage disagrees with.

However, this forum doesn't change - the same back and forths ad nauseum.

So with that in mind - Ali had no skill just speed and reflex; Leonard cheated Hagler and was a coward; Tyson was the greatest HW ever at his peak and had no flaws - did I miss anything?

 

Ali by late round KO. Ali's speed and movement are the key here.

 

If you take into account aspects other than raw power, Lewis is probably above Shavers and on par with Foreman as the most dangerous puncher Ali would've faced and up there as a punch picker too.

That being said Ali is still a fairly bad matchup for him to my eye, though it might be a good intriguing fight for spells. Lewis great though he was was ultimately too slow to beat Ali imo and inconsistent/pawing/reaching with his jab, liked leaning back in a straight line etc and wasn't overly layered defensively, not used to having to hunt down fleet footed outboxers etc. Fine when matadoring or setting up the bigger, slower lumps he (mostly) beat but would get him largely outmanoevred in the footwork stakes and lit up by Ali's handspeed and timing.

I can't see him outboxing Ali in a million years which leaves him needing to stalk and punch dents into him or to outwork him, neither of which seems overly likely either.

 

Ali beat Frazier 2 out of 3 times. It appears he did indeed have some sort of answer.

 

Too bad we never saw Lewis against Byrd. That would give us a better clue how he did against boxer types.

In Ali's time, there was nothing like Lewis. Lewis was a bit of a new breed with that size, power and relative skill and athleticism.

 

Great analysis!! Ultimately peak Ali would be WAYYY too fast for peak Lewis. TKO for Ali in 11-12 rounds.

 

I'm leaning towards Ali in a tense fight that goes the distance. Lewis didn't do a lot of things that bothered Ali: heavy focus on body attacks, left hooks, cutting off the ring, head movement to slip the jsb and get inside for short combinations, etc.

However, Ali hated being jabbed at (Norton) and being forced to think/be the aggressor (Young). Lewis wouldn't necessarily challenge Ali stylistically, but in terms of his tools and attributes. Lewis loved using his jab, which was heavy, technically sound, and he threw it a lot which would bother and occasionally frustrate Ali who preferred dictating the pace with his swift jab and lateral movement. Lewis size, strength, high ring IQ, and more than respectable power would keep Ali on edge for however long it lasted. One factor that isn't always discussed for this matchup is that if Lewis managed to hurt Ali, Ali would not be able to get away with spamming clinches and holding on tight considering Lewis is larger and stronger; which means Lewis being able to follow up with another heavy shot becomes quite possible.

With that being said, prime Ali's explosiveness, adaptability, absurd foot speed, superior stamina and work rate could tilt the match in his favor. I think Ali would simply land more at a higher percentage to narrowly take the nod. I doubt they would KO each other.

 

Ali's pace and movement would offer many difficulties for Lennox, but Ali never had to fight a 6'5 250lb Olympian.

Ali may be able to land well with the jab and right hand but did not really have the tipping point power one punch power to expect an early ko and Lennox had a dangerous right hand.

Ali would have to set the pace and land combos with speed and use his movement to wear Lennox down and from round 9 -15 where Lennox would be tired and vulnerable and Ali could stop Lennox. Lennox had a great right hand and good jab, but his left hook was not the type of kryptonite that would make Ali worry.
Ali would have to set the pace and make Lenox work and take him into deep waters and then test the ship.

 

Distinction - Ali disliked being jabbed with - he didn't really struggle as much as is made out dealing with the better jabbers of his day in Liston and Terrell.

Good post - I think an interesting part of the fight might be seen in functional strength and usage of leverage in the clinch.

 

Last night

Our friend said Ring Generalship isn't a criterion. If Boxer A lets Boxer B stay on the outside and shoeshine him all night, Boxer B is exhibiting Ring Generalship.

 

Was it Norton's Jab that frustrated Ali, or his awkward cross-armed defense pressure style?

 

Ali had skill, but he wasn't top tier in terms of skill.
Tyson is the best HW, not the greatest.

 

He cheated in order to win their 2nd match.
And by their 3rd, Frazier was completely washed up.
And he did not have an answer to not getting hit with that left hook, that was my point.

 

Is punching the hips and just below a legal punch?

Cos if not, then Frazier cheated in the first.

It's a fight - fighters bend the rules and the ref enforces the rules.

How can Tyson be the best when he virtually had no comparable inside game to the likes of Dempsey, Louis, Marciano, Frazier and unfortunately, outside of Spinks and Holmes, he lost to every great fighter that he shared a ring with?

Tyson was phenomenal at his mercurial best - the greatest destroyer of b and c level fighters perhaps in the division's history - but he was the best? Best at what? Demonstrated against who?

 

The problem here is you don't define skill.

Let's define skill first and what amounts to boxing skill - cos Ali was plenty top tier in terms of many aspects of skill - I suspect that what you really mean is fundamental hands up defence, punching to head and body in combination skillset.

Ali's footwork, angling, pivotting, right hand lead, jab and cross, jab selection and mechanics, headmovement, whether slipping inside or outside jabs, weave and rolling under and with shots, distance negotiation, even his use of leverage when tying up fighters with overhooks and under hook bicep control - these are all skills, skills that he did to a very high level.

But again, what kinda madness am I saying - Ali's all speed and reflex, Leonard was a cheat and coward for not fighting Duran at his very best in the rematch and Micky Gerrard was the best HW ever but also out of his prime by 23/24 years old - did I miss anything?