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the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mantequilla, Nov 20, 2009.

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George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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Moore wasn't impossible to hurt like a Chuvalo or Laporte; but he is gifted with an incredible ability to recover and an even better ability to cycle through all of the tactics you'd use when hurt. He switches between getting the clinch and holding, using his defence to stay safe, backing away, fighting off the ropes, opening exchanges for a counter then getting away. All the while, Moore is either consciously or unthinkingly making adjustments to survive the following rounds too; which is never more apparent than in the Durrelle fight.

Finally, Moore's defensive ringcraft was not limited to using his defensive skill to just defending; he could use it to set himself up offensively. I've already spoken briefly about how Moore was able to defend and punch at the same time as well as anyone I've seen; and it actually makes it pretty hard to analyse his defence as it's often a counter which he uses to defend. However, there's some specific stuff which Moore uses very often.

The first is something I'd call Contact Counters, for lack of a better name. Some guards have counters built into them, which you throw as soon as you feel contact, and Moore used them to great effect. When shoulder rolling, he'd roll their right hand off their shoulder, then immediately come back with the right hand, knowing their head was close to them due to their right. He'd do the same with the cross guard, catching a punch on his elbows and coming back with the left hook.

Another way which Moore's defence serves him offensively, is how he uses his head-movement to get inside. Very Duran-esque at times. He'll slip and roll, bob and weave or lean into a clinch after his opponent has missed a punch; then that to work. Another facet in which Moore's defence works offensively, is how he can use the cross guard to push people's arms around with better leverage and how it unfurls out into punches as he gets up close.

A look which Moore uses all the time, is to lean forward and hunker down on his front knee; and then immediately shift back, lean all the way back and step out at an angle. This is very Sanchez-esque on its own, but Moore is very capable of throwing the right hand as he comes back up, which you can see seconds before he KOs Olson. The idea is to sucker a guy into punching at a close target, then baiting him into following.

George Crowcroft, Sep 9, 2026

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George Crowcroft said: ↑

Defence:

Moore uses a mixture of guards, primarily depending on his range; and his stance. As we discussed, out beyond arm's length; Moore likes to be in a long bladed stance and he primarily adopts a long guard to match. He used this long guard along with the jab to close openings by creating obstacles, and control the flow of the fight. This could be in the form of framing off their arms, neck or shoulders, it could be long leverage blocks, or it could be using hand checks or handfighting. However, the long guard has it's weaknesses and as you'd expect, Moore had his own way of addressing these. The weaknesses with the long guard is that it creates openings but relies on the range to deny them from being exploited; and as it relies on having your arms extended, it's more open to hooks and uppercuts when thrown in combination.

His fix to these was to fold his arms back into himself, into a cross guard which he would use to block, parry, catch or pick off his opponents' punches with his elbows, forearms and upper arms; while also squaring his stance a bit more. He would fold his elbows while punching, or while operating the long guard, allowing him to defend and punch at the same time amidst exchanges.

The Cross Guard is obviously what Moore is known for; and he is the master at using it.
The basic position Moore would take is crossing his rear arm over his jaw and his lead arm either outstretched or across his chest. Some alterations to this basic set-up, include:
1) His lead arm crossed along his forehead, with the glove covering his chin for left hooks, and his rear arm crossed just below his chin, the upper arm covering for jabs and uppercuts.

2) The rear arm up in a high guard, the lead arm crossed to the rear hip, with the elbow spiked out to defend body shots, and his shoulder to protect his chin.

3) Both arms protecting his body; the rear arm further away from his chest, but crossed to his lead hip; and his lead arm crossed the opposite way, but with the glove under his armpit:

Aside from the positions of his hands, forearms, elbows and upper arms which Moore could retreat to, he also used torso and head movement to make many shots seem to glance off him. The most obvious of these, is the Shoulder Roll; however, Moore will also turn his back into the shots on both sides, or turn with shots as he caught them on his cross guard. This is a similar idea to how Canelo turns his head at the last moment, when all else has failed, to take all the stank off a punch which is definitely going to hit him, only Moore used his whole body and not his chin. As well as this, he also had a wide, wide variety of slips, weaves, leans and an excellent ability to level change.

His ability to slip created an excellent ability to counter the jab; which he used to great extent in almost all of his fights. He could slip outside and split the jab with a hook or counter jab; he could slip inside and shoot a right hand upstairs, or to the body. He had an excellent ability to weave under and outside of punches; which let him step out of action and reset, cause collisions allowing for some clinch work and really step into his left hook.

Moore leaned over his feet quite often; sometimes over his front foot to draw shots or meddle with distance; sometimes as he retreated, putting more distance between his opponents' hands and his head; or often out of the side with a pivot to escape exchanges or an infight safely and at an angle.

A key part of how Moore got close to his opponents was by using the Bob and Weave in combination with his cross guard. This made both more effective, as having your arms crossed across your face and jaw will make a smarter fighter to punch higher up on the head, which makes it easier for Moore to weave under punches. As Moore was bent forward at the waist and weaving up and down; the opening to body created by in having both arms across the face, is harder to hit; while helping defend against the uppercut and shots to the chest which are more prevalent threats while moving in.

Bobbing with the jab is among Moore's most used tactics, which allows him to close the distance and avoid getting hit; it's a great strategy to proactively avoid shots and a better strategy at creating openings and panic in opponents. An incoming, moving target is always a threat, and this allowed Moore to use his crowding footwork to get them to the ropes, create the collision he wants to close the gap and let him use the jab and body work to open up their guard on the way.

I've mentioned a bunch of different ways Moore avoids being punched in the face, but as you may think; why? Why doesn't he pick a couple of ways and get really good at them? The reason why is simple; variety. If Moore was to water down his skillset - even if he improved at the techniques which remain - the improvement would not make up for the sheer amount of options which Moore can draw from. Defensive variety is essential in defusing traps and keeping yourself from being predictable and set up. If a fighter is unable to land, they'll be hesitant to throw unless they're using it to land something else; and the defensive worsens their chance to do so. Example: in the first round against Bivins; in about a 30 second period, Moore blocks a jab on his cross guard; slips to the outside of one then the inside of the next, down parries a fourth and rolls under a fifth, and as a result, Bivins couldn't really build off the jab in a meaningful way.

Something else Moore would do, could be considered described as Presenting a False Target. What I mean by this, is Moore would give an obvious opening to his opponents. Be it a huge gaping hole to the left hand side of his head; a big spot to the body in the cross or his guard; or by leaning closer to them. Often, Moore will do this when he's in a position to remove the threat of one of their hands (eg, moving far enough past their lead hand so their rear hand is no longer an option until they pivot). These false targets are entirely built to get the response he wants; it's much easier to defend, counter or set traps/patterns when you're controlling what they're throwing. And if they don't throw; Moore has either lost nothing, or gotten close to them depending on how he did it.

In Moore's fights with Marciano and Durrelle, Moore demonstrates an incredible aptitude for fighting with his back to the ropes. As one of the finest counter punchers ever; Moore was completely able to fight off the ropes, sucker someone into range and give them a big ****ing crack. The key principles about having a boundary in combat sports; is that once you're up against it, you lose 180° of direction to move in, you can no longer control the range as you have no space behind you, and your stance will square out naturally as a bladed stance loses its benefits and becomes impractical. However, Moore used these things to his advantage when his back was on the ropes. He didn't have to control range, as his ability to guage it was so refined; he wanted the other guy to walk into his trap like a fly into a spider web. He'd work his counters off the ropes, while remaining squared up behind his cross-guard and allowing his opponent to decide if this trapped, old man was worth going after.

Moore will use the give in the ropes to lean and bounce around, the movement keeping him a slippery target. He'll also use his torso movement to slip out to the side for a better angle to counter; it's hard to tell if there's any half steps involved due to 50s camera angles, but I find it very likely. Sinking into the ropes with his cross guard seemed to help him make the small twists and rolling of shots off his guard.

Moore's ability to use multiple defensive techniques one after another, fluidly and well balanced is as good as anyone his size. Chaining Defence is an essential skill for almost every fighter at a high level, and those who lack it - think Amir Khan, Terry Norris or Dillian Whyte or someone like that, are usually KOd in brutal fashion. Not Moore though, his defence operates like an organised and well maintained watch.
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This is GOLD.

I ‘leafed’ through it as it’s bedtime for bonzo, but will spend some time to fully absorb it soon.

My thanks, friend, and best of luck on your recovery.

I’ll give you the wisdom of Roy Jones Jr: God puts obstacles in our way to make sure we really want what we say we want. (If the god part isn’t in keeping with your belief system, substitute life or fate and it works out just the same.)

Saintpat, Sep 9, 2026

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Oscar de la Hoya vs Julio Cesar Chavez II, scheduled for 12 rounds for the WBC welterweight championship on Sept 18, 1998, at Thomas and Mack Center in Las Vegas.

The is a rematch from a fight that Oscar won by TKO 4 at 140 pounds more than two years earlier when JC Chavez almost certainly came into the bout masking a cut over his eye that was sustained in training.

De la Hoya is 28-0 and weighs 147 in the fifth defense of his crown.

JC Superstar is 144 1/2 with a 100-2-2 record.

1 — ODLH 10-9: Slow start as Chavez throws maybe a handful of punches and gives ground as Oscar sizes him up. De la Hoya jabs and lands a couple of flurries.

2 — ODLH 10-9: Julio is more aggressive and lands a few left hooks along with a good right. De la Hoya answers emphatically with combinations and effective left uppercuts and rights.

3 — JCC 10-9: The old master is surprisingly effective with his jab against the baller, quicker Oscar and also gets in a few clean left hooks and rights. De la Hoya goes ballistic over a low blow but really lets the round get away from him without doing much.

4 — ODLH 10-9: Oscar gets the jab going. JCC doesn’t do much, and when he does he is met with blistering combos as Oscar’s hand speed is on display.

5 — ODLH 10-9: Chavez picks his spots and lands a few jabs, a right and a hook. Oscar opens up late with combinations as they stand toe-to-toe, and he’s just too fast for Julio.

6 — ODLH 10-9: JCC puts his head on Oscar’s chest, and de la Hoya welcomes it. Chavez is busy but not a lot on his shots. De la Hoya misses a lot and smothers himself, but lands a few more clean shots than the veteran.

7 — Even 10-10: Oscar is willing to fight and gives Chavez some openings with his display of machismo, but the champion rallies late to pull even.

8 — OKLH 10-9: They stand toe to toe. De la Hoya puts JCC through a meat grinder ripping shots while Chavez kind of flails away, with some effective shots but seems to be overwhelmed and is losing steam. Uppercuts pay off for Oscar as he rips apart Julio’s lower lip and leaves him bloody.

Chavez’s corner stops the fight faster trying to slow the bleeding without success, and Julio doesn’t seem to argue.

My card: Oscar 79-74. Official. Cards had de la Hoya up 78-75 (twice) and 78-73.

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Saintpat, Sep 11, 2026 at 10:07 PM

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Saintpat said: ↑

Oscar de la Hoya vs Julio Cesar Chavez II, scheduled for 12 rounds for the WBC welterweight championship on Sept 18, 1998, at Thomas and Mack Center in Las Vegas.

The is a rematch from a fight that Oscar won by TKO 4 at 140 pounds more than two years earlier when JC Chavez almost certainly came into the bout masking a cut over his eye that was sustained in training.

De la Hoya is 28-0 and weighs 147 in the fifth defense of his crown.

JC Superstar is 144 1/2 with a 100-2-2 record.

1 — ODLH 10-9: Slow start as Chavez throws maybe a handful of punches and gives ground as Oscar sizes him up. De la Hoya jabs and lands a couple of flurries.

2 — ODLH 10-9: Julio is more aggressive and lands a few left hooks along with a good right. De la Hoya answers emphatically with combinations and effective left uppercuts and rights.

3 — JCC 10-9: The old master is surprisingly effective with his jab against the baller, quicker Oscar and also gets in a few clean left hooks and rights. De la Hoya goes ballistic over a low blow but really lets the round get away from him without doing much.

4 — ODLH 10-9: Oscar gets the jab going. JCC doesn’t do much, and when he does he is met with blistering combos as Oscar’s hand speed is on display.

5 — ODLH 10-9: Chavez picks his spots and lands a few jabs, a right and a hook. Oscar opens up late with combinations as they stand toe-to-toe, and he’s just too fast for Julio.

6 — ODLH 10-9: JCC puts his head on Oscar’s chest, and de la Hoya welcomes it. Chavez is busy but not a lot on his shots. De la Hoya misses a lot and smothers himself, but lands a few more clean shots than the veteran.

7 — Even 10-10: Oscar is willing to fight and gives Chavez some openings with his display of machismo, but the champion rallies late to pull even.

8 — OKLH 10-9: They stand toe to toe. De la Hoya puts JCC through a meat grinder ripping shots while Chavez kind of flails away, with some effective shots but seems to be overwhelmed and is losing steam. Uppercuts pay off for Oscar as he rips apart Julio’s lower lip and leaves him bloody.

Chavez’s corner stops the fight faster trying to slow the bleeding without success, and Julio doesn’t seem to argue.

My card: Oscar 79-74. Official. Cards had de la Hoya up 78-75 (twice) and 78-73.

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Pat, re-watched this to score about 2 years ago. Loved it. This is what I wrote:

Oscar DeLaHoya v Julio Cesar Chavez II (welterweight title)

Round 1: 10-10 Even
Round 2: 10-9 ODLH
Round 3: 10-9 Chavez
Round 4: 10-9 ODLH
Round 5: 10-9 ODLH
Round 6: 10-9 Chavez
Round 7: 10-9 ODLH
Round 8: 10-9 ODLH (best round)
Chavez retires between rounds

Total through 8 completed rounds: 78-75 Oscar (actual scores: 78-75, 78-75 and 79-73 all for Oscar)

This is the first time I'm revisiting this fight since it took place. And it was a good fight compared to their first debacle. After the 6th round - which I scored for Chavez - I heard Gil Clancy say between rounds to Oscar, "use your legs, use the ring", which he did in the 7th, boxing a masterpiece. I think it was the end of that round Oscar got one in a bit late and one could see Chavez winding up a left hook to Oscar who was already walking back to his corner. If it wasn't for Chavez' corner grabbing him, there may have been some extra-curricular fireworks that round. But in the 8th Oscar went back in the trenches with Chavez and produced the best action round. Without knowing the language one could see Chavez was quitting between rounds. Like it or not - and I was always a Chavez fan - it's a definite footnote on his career that he would look to bail when things got overly tough. He was always so dominant that it never really came up until he was older and to be frank, he wasn't a real welterweight either. But taking nothing from Oscar's performance, he was brilliant here and sampled some excellent shots from Chavez. Totally enjoyed this again.

scartissue, Sep 12, 2026 at 6:28 AM

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scartissue said: ↑

Pat, re-watched this to score about 2 years ago. Loved it. This is what I wrote:

Oscar DeLaHoya v Julio Cesar Chavez II (welterweight title)

Round 1: 10-10 Even
Round 2: 10-9 ODLH
Round 3: 10-9 Chavez
Round 4: 10-9 ODLH
Round 5: 10-9 ODLH
Round 6: 10-9 Chavez
Round 7: 10-9 ODLH
Round 8: 10-9 ODLH (best round)
Chavez retires between rounds

Total through 8 completed rounds: 78-75 Oscar (actual scores: 78-75, 78-75 and 79-73 all for Oscar)

This is the first time I'm revisiting this fight since it took place. And it was a good fight compared to their first debacle. After the 6th round - which I scored for Chavez - I heard Gil Clancy say between rounds to Oscar, "use your legs, use the ring", which he did in the 7th, boxing a masterpiece. I think it was the end of that round Oscar got one in a bit late and one could see Chavez winding up a left hook to Oscar who was already walking back to his corner. If it wasn't for Chavez' corner grabbing him, there may have been some extra-curricular fireworks that round. But in the 8th Oscar went back in the trenches with Chavez and produced the best action round. Without knowing the language one could see Chavez was quitting between rounds. Like it or not - and I was always a Chavez fan - it's a definite footnote on his career that he would look to bail when things got overly tough. He was always so dominant that it never really came up until he was older and to be frank, he wasn't a real welterweight either. But taking nothing from Oscar's performance, he was brilliant here and sampled some excellent shots from Chavez. Totally enjoyed this again.
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Good summation. I teetered on round six and can certainly see giving it to JCC. And I had seven even whereas you had a nothing-much-happened first even. So we’re pretty much in alignment.

I agree Julio quit. His body language at the end of the round was pretty bad. He got on his high horse when Larry Merchant interviewed him sometime after (tbf, his lip looked awful, really ripped apart) and asked (through an interpreter) whether he quit or the corner stopped it and JCC yelled ‘bull****’ several times (after translation … he didn’t seem to get the ‘or’ part of the question) and looked like he wanted to fight Larry, but he calmed down.

Saintpat, Sep 12, 2026 at 7:28 AM

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Jose Legra v Johnny Famechon (featherweight title) (scored on Britain's 5 - 4 3/4 point system)

Round 1: Even
Round 2: Legra
Round 3: Legra
Round 4: Famechon
Round 5: Legra
Round 6: Legra
Round 7: Legra
Round 8: Famechon
Round 9: Famechon
Round 10: Legra
Round 11: Legra
Round 12: Famechon
Round 13: Famechon
Round 14: Legra
Round 15: Famechon

Total: 73 1/2 - 73 Legra (8-6-1 in rounds) (actual score: 74 1/2 - 73 1/4 by the sole official for Famechon)

Very interesting fight because I haven't watched a lot of these two. Famechon did not have a lot of tools IMO but what he had he worked well with. He was very strong, a decent jab and a facet that kept this close was his infighting. Legra was flashy, a loose boxer and threw a very decent punch, which came out of nowhere with his speed. A very tight fight when you disallow the knockdowns, which the ref did. I understand that Johnny had an issue with slipping but he was down about 4 times that another ref might have called knockdowns. Personally, I feel the 6th round KD was legit as well as the first time Johnny was down in the 11th. BTW, I hate Britain's 5 - 4 3/4 scoring system used at the time. What a mess and waste of time calculating the score. Regardless, it was close but I feel Legra should have retained his title.

scartissue, Sep 12, 2026 at 9:30 AM

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Mike Tyson vs Buster Douglas

Round 1: Buster 10:9
Round 2: Buster 10:9
Round 3: Tyson 10:9
Round 4: Buster 10:9
Round 5: Buster 10:9
Round 6: Tyson 10:9
Round 7: Buster 10:9
Round 8: Tyson 10:8
Round 9: Buster 10:9
Round 10: KO

Total by the time of the stoppage: 86 - 84 Buster Douglas

So much has been said about this legendary fight, that I don't think I need to preview it here. From my perspective, I think that it was the first time ever that I scored 3 rounds for Tyson. I gave him only the 6th and 8th before, but this time, I think he edged the third with his body shots. Also, this time, Mike's count seemed longer than Buster's, lol. Overall, fantastic performance from Douglas, he gave Mike, who clearly didn't want to be there, a boxing lesson. Well, that's how you end up when you party with Bobby Brown the night before the fight. Official scorecards were atrocious btw. They tried to rob Buster blind.

MaccaveliMacc, Sep 15, 2026 at 4:48 AM

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MaccaveliMacc said: ↑

Mike Tyson vs Buster Douglas

Round 1: Buster 10:9
Round 2: Buster 10:9
Round 3: Tyson 10:9
Round 4: Buster 10:9
Round 5: Buster 10:9
Round 6: Tyson 10:9
Round 7: Buster 10:9
Round 8: Tyson 10:8
Round 9: Buster 10:9
Round 10: KO

Total by the time of the stoppage: 86 - 84 Buster Douglas

So much has been said about this legendary fight, that I don't think I need to preview it here. From my perspective, I think that it was the first time ever that I scored 3 rounds for Tyson. I gave him only the 6th and 8th before, but this time, I think he edged the third with his body shots. Also, this time, Mike's count seemed longer than Buster's, lol. Overall, fantastic performance from Douglas, he gave Mike, who clearly didn't want to be there, a boxing lesson. Well, that's how you end up when you party with Bobby Brown the night before the fight. Official scorecards were atrocious btw. They tried to rob Buster blind.
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Haven’t revised this one in a few years, but last time I did I seem to remember noting that it wasn’t really Buster’s jab controlling things as much as I thought. He was landing right leads and this kind of overhand lead left punch as his big weapons.

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George Crowcroft said: ↑

About 3 weeks ago, I snapped shin in half and have been bed bound since. So I thought what better way than to spend my time, but watching guys I couldn't move like even when I could walk
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Oh ****, George - so sorry to hear that!

Jel, Sep 15, 2026 at 12:14 PM

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Jel said: ↑

Oh ****, George - so sorry to hear that!
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It's not so bad mate, I get paid time off work and I'm free of the distractions of employment and socialising, so I can watch as much boxing as I want

Thanks though, pal. Appreciate it.

George Crowcroft, Sep 15, 2026 at 2:22 PM

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George Crowcroft said: ↑

It's not so bad mate, I get paid time off work and I'm free of the distractions of employment and socialising, so I can watch as much boxing as I want

Thanks though, pal. Appreciate it.
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If the mood strikes you, I’d love another deep dive into a fighter’s tactics.

In fact, I had a fighter in mind: the somewhat under-appreciated James Scott (you being the resident expert on light heavyweights and all).

I find there’s much more to him than body punching (which he excelled at).

If not, I understand and no problem. I wish you well in your recovery.

Saintpat, Sep 15, 2026 at 5:35 PM

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Saintpat said: ↑

Haven’t revised this one in a few years, but last time I did I seem to remember noting that it wasn’t really Buster’s jab controlling things as much as I thought. He was landing right leads and this kind of overhand lead left punch as his big weapons.
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It was both. His jab was flawless, but lead rights were doing the most damage.

MaccaveliMacc, Sep 16, 2026 at 1:41 AM

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Roy Jones Jr vs Montell Griffin I

Round 1: 10:9 Griffin
Round 2: 10:9 Griffin
Round 3: 10:9 Griffin
Round 4: 10:9 Griffin
Round 5: 10:9 Jones
Round 6: 10:9 Jones
Round 7: 10:8 Jones
Round 8: 10:9 Griffin
Round 9: DQ

Total by the time of the DQ: 86-85 Montell Griffin

This fight seems to be a little bit forgotten in my opinion. People focus more on the DQ and the fact thatr Roy blasted Griffin out in a round in the rematch. However, it was a pretty good, tactical scrap, that Roy was losing in my opinion. Griffin gave him all sorts of trouble. Pushed him to the ropes many times (where Roy seemed to go voluntarily), pounded to the body, and befuddled Jones in the middle of the ring. The way Roy ended the fight was shameful, no excuses for him, he had about second or two to think about the punches he was throwing at his man kneeling down. Scumbag behavior.

MaccaveliMacc, Sep 16, 2026 at 1:47 AM

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MaccaveliMacc said: ↑

Roy Jones Jr vs Montell Griffin I

Round 1: 10:9 Griffin
Round 2: 10:9 Griffin
Round 3: 10:9 Griffin
Round 4: 10:9 Griffin
Round 5: 10:9 Jones
Round 6: 10:9 Jones
Round 7: 10:8 Jones
Round 8: 10:9 Griffin
Round 9: DQ

Total by the time of the DQ: 86-85 Montell Griffin

This fight seems to be a little bit forgotten in my opinion. People focus more on the DQ and the fact thatr Roy blasted Griffin out in a round in the rematch. However, it was a pretty good, tactical scrap, that Roy was losing in my opinion. Griffin gave him all sorts of trouble. Pushed him to the ropes many times (where Roy seemed to go voluntarily), pounded to the body, and befuddled Jones in the middle of the ring. The way Roy ended the fight was shameful, no excuses for him, he had about second or two to think about the punches he was throwing at his man kneeling down. Scumbag behavior.
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That's a bit harsh. It was in the heat of the moment and I don't think Roy was happy about how he acted.

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Chuck Norris said: ↑

That's a bit harsh. It was in the heat of the moment and I don't think Roy was happy about how he acted.
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Heat of the moment was there, but he had over a second to think about what he was doing. It wasn't the end of combination, it was a new combination all together. He also said to Larry Merchant in the post fight interview that he did it because the ref didn't come between them, which is a pathetic excuse in my eyes.

MaccaveliMacc, Sep 16, 2026 at 6:25 AM

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