Joe Frazier's chin

Agree with everything you said.

Re the earlier mention of the KD suffered in the Mike Bruce fight, that was in only Joe’s second pro fight.

Ali himself was KD’d by Sonny Banks and then later by Cooper - besides both offending punches being left hooks - the effects of those punches bore little correlation with equally as hard and much harder shots later absorbed by Ali without going down.

Back to the first Forman fight, besides individual and varied physiological reactions to certain punches of the same force, we can see a number of Foreman’s punches actually shifting Frazier physically, allowing for a more sheer measure or interpretation of the power in Foreman’s punches.

As to Joe’s chin, not so granite that he couldn’t be KD’d but good enough to have only been actually stopped early in a fight twice - twice yes but by the same monster puncher no less.

Perhaps Shavers and/or Lyle might’ve turned the trick to put Joe down but keeping Joe down was another thing again.

After the first KD, Foreman’s follow up was perfect, every time Joe got back up, George kept the pressure on, continuing to hit Frazier often and impossibly hard without any let up, leaving Joe without any time to recuperate.

No doubt the times Joe was wobbled by Machen in Frazier’s 13th fight (Joe very close to going down) and staggered by Ramos will also be mentioned.

That is fair but being wobbled is still removed from being knocked down and being knocked down is that much more removed again from actually being KO’d/stopped.

 

OK, I did not consider that it could take years to just maximize your power.
This is a cogent explanation thank you.

The difference I see between the 2 fights is I can see more loading up against Frazier.
But that may be more circumstantial in that Frazier kept advancing even rising from the canvas, & Chuvalo was covering up as much as possible.

Still that does not mean that he did not hit Frazier harder.
The argument concerning comparing the power of Foreman & Liston makes sense if the comments were confined to those having faced Foreman early in his career.

 

I'd say Frazier was a tough son of a ***** the way he took that right hook to his exposed left ribs from Foreman at 2:09, ****ed him all up, and he still kept trying to throw the left hook right after it.

He must have been in great shape, taking a shot like that to the ribs ribs from a guy like Foreman. But surely he had trouble rolling out of bed the next morning.

Also, after that first knockdown, Frazier starts coming up way short with the left hook. Reach of Foreman.

 

Frazier's lights out part of his "chin" was probably as good as it gets. The part of his "chin" that keeps a fighter upright while taking heavy punches wasn't.

 

Nothing wrong with Joe's chin. Only stopped by the strongest and most powerful punching HW Champion there ever was. Joe got up from every one of those hits that would have knocked out most Champs in history. As noted in most of the previous threads Joe was rocked as well as floored through out his career. Only George stopped him. Manila was different circumstances. I also believe like most that Joe never nicks one from George.
Joe was never the same after the FOTC. Physical wear including his very high BP and the two lackluster bouts befor George showed where he was at this point. Joe accomplished what he wanted with Ali and his heart wasn't as invested as befor. He weighed around 205 for Ali one and something like 215 for George. He looked soft and Fat. Got up every time George dropped him.

 

People downplay Frazier’s chin for getting dropped 6 times against George Foreman, but how many boxers would have made the count this many times after taking the punishment he did?

 

Yeah this is pretty well analyzed.
A good chin, but not so much by ATG status-ability to withstand consistent punishment high, but could be dropped or staggered by also non-elite punchers.
Recall almost was put down & thus out for the third time against RIngo, clinching & then effective aggression helped salvage the fight.

He was also stunned in round 2 of the 2nd Ali fight.

I do not know if he would have weathered the Shavers & Lyle storms.
But like say late '60's or FOTC peak, compared to how he was against Foreman... likely depends upon when he fought them.

 

100% spot on! You nailed it!!

 

Foreman was a great finisher once he hurt a man. He kept Joe hurt, didn't allow him time to recover. George had to hit Frazier with alot of punches to finally get the stoppage.
After the first two knockdowns Joe came up swinging with fury but that didn't deter Foreman who was staying on top of him and letting his hands go. Point being I dont see a Lyle or Shavers standing in there to accept the return fire the way Foreman did. They may have backed off and allowed Joe to gather himself.
I can't think of many finishers in Foreman's league. Tyson and Joe Louis might be.

 

I think Joe had an above average chin and at his peak, incredible recovery powers. Actually, he had those well beyond his peak..

I look at 'chin' slightly different than others. Someone who gets stopped, knocked out is simply 'normal'. They don't have a 'bad chin', they are knocked out because of the abnormal punishment, punishment a human body is not designed to take. Anyone who can last a fight, take a punch, actually has incredible resilience compared to the average Joe, and people like McCall, Chuvalo, Hrgo, well, they are freaks of nature.

 

Hrgovic is the weirdest one. Sometimes his body language can look pretty bad -- he'll get nailed with a perfect shot, then just freeze / stop moving for a few seconds like he's concussed but his body remains balanced and doesn't go slack. Then he reboots and he's fine. Happened multiple times against Adeleye. McCall (and Mercer) just showed zero reaction to being hit.

 

Good point. Thus far Wardley also has a hellacious chin

 

I agree that Foreman was a great finisher!
But not that Lyle & Shavers would not stay in there to accept return fire!
They overwhelmingly did just the OPPOSITE, such as Foreman vs. Lyle the fight of the year.
Also with *each other*, & Shavers finally cracking first.

The exception is how Shavers admitted to being duped-like others-when he could have waded in, not knowing he had ALi hurt.
Joe would never act like that, & although Frazier was better than them overall, them as top contenders in an excellent era with a marked stylistic/slugger advantage, might well have beaten Frazier.

LIKELY post-peak/1973 Frazier.

 

Foreman was great. He takes a lot of stick on here for some reason. Anybody that could do that to Frazier.. he's like the only one. Ali really punctured his aura. Like Hrgovic did to Itauma.

Retired in 1977 with a record of 45-2. He used to post on here and there, too, occasionally. He was watching his legacy unfold.

I think his chin was good in chapter II of his career. Never knocked down again.

 

Foreman used to post here? News to me.