Did Ali make a habit out of holding...

Good point. In the gym I teach my fighters how to deal with fouls.

However, a valid counter point is, 'Should a fighter have to expend energy and use time having to deal with fouls?' Isn't the holding an illegal defensive move, a time out, preventing the other fighter from hitting him, without actually having to exhibit legitimate defensive skills such as ducking, blocking, or moving? If holding is an illegal foul, isn't it the job of the referee to stop it or else take points off or disqualify the boxer? If not, why bother having a referee? If holding is okay, then shouldn't the person being held be allowed to counteract that foul with another foul - ie push their face or neck, push them off, or twist them, throw them down, or rabbit or kidney punch?

To this day, I can't understand why it was okay for Jimmy Young to incessantly hold George Foreman, but it wasn't okay for George to push him away when Jimmy held. Foreman had a point taken off simply for trying to prevent a guy from fouling him. That was not fair.

 

Hell, yeah, Ali held behind the head! He was a master at it, far more effective and subtle than most of today's fighters. But Ali was probably the last champ who was allowed to get away with it routinely.

Nowadays referees have gone too far to the opposite extreme, sometimes penalizing fighters for only a second infraction, or interfering with the fight to the extent that only one boxer is permitted to fight his (or her) fight.

But Ali's best trick was holding. It was very slick, almost invisible. Instead of wrapping around the opponent's arms or between the arm and body, he'd use an open glove and cup the opponent's elbow. This way, Ali expended very little energy, got his opponent off rythm, and walked him back into ring center where Ali had better control.

Foreman admitted that Ali's repeated left jabs wore him down, making his neck and back muscles feel tired and sluggish. I'm not sure whether Foreman realized how much Ali's holding behind the head contributed to Foreman's exhaustion. Well, that, and Foreman punching himself out.

 

.... who consequently knocked your sidekick Tyson TFO in 8 one-sided rounds :good

I Am Legend? Am I correct?

 

Holmes' Jab---Who is that in your avatar?

 

I just watched Ali vs Earnie Shavers again. If that wasn’t Ali doing all that illegal holding and not engaging, most fighters would have been docked points and DQed. Ali was allowed to get away with things that few if any others could get away with.

But the refs are hired by the promoters and Ali was the cash cow.

 

Peak Lennox was much better than mid 1970s Ali who was holding and running.

 

Foreman should have jabbed more with Ali. He came in overconfident. The fight was also in 115 degree heat which didn’t help.

Much of Ali’s “legend” came from the Foreman win. He was thought to be washed up after the losses to Frazier and Norton. But after seeing Foreman vs Lyle and vs Jimmy Young one has to wonder if Foreman wasn’t just an illusion who could hit hard for a few rounds at that point and was exposed by a durable fighter who could take his punch.

Ali always had trouble with anyone who could jab with him and fought very few who used the jab well. Liston and Foreman had heavy jabs but neither could use their legs with it. Norton gave Ali fits using his own jab. Peak Holmes likely would have torn him up.

 

Is that you Mendoza?

 

With the way that refs fell over themselves to help Ali, I'm surprised they didn't count Young's dropping to the canvas as repeated knockdowns.

 

he did hold a lot yes
is part of the boxing

 

Yes.

But a lot of fighters get away with little rule breaks. George Foreman's constant shoving and Larry Holmes's constant stiff arming are two good examples. I even saw an interview with Larry where he discusses the various uses for stiff arming, how he'd do it, why it was great, etc. There's no secret about this stuff.

 

Muhammad Ali began this idea of holding an opponent's head when he returned to the ring in Oct 1970 after a 43 month banishment from boxing due to his legal problems with the Selective Service Board in 1967. When Ali returned, he no longer possessed the stamina that he enjoyed as champion from 1964-1967, Ali was fluid, had great reflexes, footwork, timing, stamina and speed. Ali now had to fight and become more resourceful, using other tactics to ensure victory, holding the head was one of them along with his famed Rope A Dope when he ran out of steam.

 

He just about made his career off the back of his holding. It was his bread and butter.

 

He did it constantly...and got away with it...

 

I don't believe holding is nearly as effective as Big George's pushing. Ali was 224 1/2 pounds for the Thrilla. What if he shoved Joe whenever he tried to get inside?