The Most Overrated Fighters - By Weightclass

PowerPuncher · Oct 23, 2008

Ezzard said:

1. So 99.99% of boxing experts, trainers, fighters, etc... are wrong. And the fact that Monzon went unbeaten for so long, cleaned out a stronger division, beat better fighters,

2. would never have drawn to Mercado,

3. would never have lost to Calzaghe (especially after dropping him in the first), holds the record for defences... none of those count for anything?

4. he did all that but was basic? if that's the case I've no idea how Benvenuti won best boxer at the Olympics, or how Griffith won 3 titles, or how Bennie Briscoe was co-ordinated enough to put one foot in front of the other.

5. Armstrong does not get beaten comprehensively by anyone in his prime. Why bother even arguing it? You think those guys can beat him then fine. They are all top fighters but give yourself some room to manouvere. the whole thread is starting to feel like a group of guys picking on a kid in the playground.

Judah wouldn't train at the same gym as Ross, let alone beat him. Boxing is a hell of a lot more than who hits first and who hits hardest.
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1. Yes, most boxing 'experts', haven't boxed, and don't know about boxing skills

2. Showing your ignorance, Hopkins beat Mercado clearly, that was a robbery draw.

3. Firstly Calazage whips any Monzon. Secondly lets see what Monzon can do at 43 years of age, oh thats right he retired at 35 and couldn't even live that long

4. Yes Monzon is very basic skill wise, what does he do thats special? He has excellent stamina, and keeps using his stiff jab and right all night and this was enough to dominate his division, but his career was made off picking on smaller men. I seriously don't see him as that much better than Pavlik or Kessler

5. The universal consensus that Armstrong is P4P top3 is clearly wrong. Put him in against Burley and he gets KO'd at Welter, so he was never the best Welter.

Armstrong lost against plenty of contenders in his prime. Against the best of the best of all time at 126-140 (lets forget the top welters), he just doesn't come out top, he doesn't have the skill/ability to do so

My dinner with Conteh · Oct 23, 2008

PowerPuncher said:

Showing your ignorance, Hopkins beat Mercado clearly, that was a robbery draw.
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The Ring and Boxing News didn't think so.

Ezzard · Oct 23, 2008

My dinner with Conteh said:

The Ring and Boxing News didn't think so.
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What do they know? This guy's got 6 and half thousand posts on an internet forum.

My dinner with Conteh · Oct 23, 2008

Ezzard said:

What do they know? This guy's got 6 and half thousand posts on an internet forum.
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I know, he needs at least 10,000 to be taken seriously in classic.

Loewe · Oct 23, 2008

My dinner with Conteh said:

I know, he needs at least 10,000 to be taken seriously in classic.
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So you are just playing with me then all the time? :|

My dinner with Conteh · Oct 23, 2008

Loewe said:

So you are just playing with me then all the time? :|
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:yep

Ezzard · Oct 23, 2008

My dinner with Conteh said:

I know, he needs at least 10,000 to be taken seriously in classic.
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Is Hopkins able to walk on water when you get to 15,000?

My dinner with Conteh · Oct 23, 2008

Ezzard said:

Is Hopkins able to walk on water when you get to 15,000?
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No, he still loses to Calzaghe. :good

PowerPuncher · Oct 23, 2008

My dinner with Conteh said:

No, he still gets robbed against Calzaghe. :good
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fixed

My dinner with Conteh · Oct 23, 2008

:happy :happy :happy

PowerPuncher · Oct 23, 2008

My dinner with Conteh said:

I know, he needs at least 10,000 to be taken seriously in classic.
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I'd have that many if a certain middle aged scouser didn't lobby to have me banned when Freddy was defending a Pedo Mexican rapper and I asked him if he wanted to let the rapper play with his kids :fire

So did you actually have a dinner with Conteh then?

Holmes' Jab · Oct 23, 2008

Haton and Castillo beat Ross? :nut

No way!

Nemesis · Oct 23, 2008

PowerPuncher said:

fixed
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Hopkins histreonics at the tail end of the Calzaghe bout, leaves a very sour taste in the mouth, for anyone to say he was robbed, is talking out of their arse. Close fight 'nuff said.

Sweet Pea · Oct 23, 2008

PowerPuncher is starting to lose all credibility. He's like Senya13 Jr.

My dinner with Conteh · Oct 24, 2008

JohnThomas1 said:

It's way too easy to take down most any fighter tho with a 100% negative view. I could do it to almost anyone in history - with ease. Let us dig a whole lot deeper.

So he lost to Taylor, twice. Some points

Both fights were RAZOR thin, and are still debated heartily today.

Taylor was in fine form, had never lost a professional bout and WAS considered Hopkins heir apparent.

Hopkins was 40 odd years old, had held the 160 title for a decade and had made 20 odd defenses among unifications as well. Do you really think it wasn't time for him to be knocked off the pedestal? I mean, what sort of standard is he being held to here? :blood

I can give you 100 greats that fell far harder and uglier than Hopkins did, jesus. Take a look at Jones, got KTFO and hammered by a guy Hopkins flogged the **** out of just after. He also got POLEAXED by a guy Hopkins absolutely brutalised years earlier. How come that stays in the closet? If Jones is excused as being past it surely Hopkins is too? AND he lost far less ugly, no?

The Jones fight is the critics fave but it really doesn't mean THAT much. Lets look at it.

Anyone saying Hopkins didn't improve dramatically over a long period afterward needs to find a croquet forum. Jones was FAR closer to full development than Hopkins. Christ, Hopkins was a hard hitting stalker at the time as much as anything. He had a reputation for big hitting aggression. Later he totally dedicated to boxing and became a brilliant technician. Jones by contrast stayed mostly with the unorthodox brilliance that was his trademark. He flogged Toney the very next year whilst Hopkins took a much longer time to find his footing.

Hopkins himself nominates the Mercado draw as the big turning point of his career. He said after that result he completely dedicated to boxing and it's easy to see he's not bullshitting. His form, consistency and incredible dedication to weight and training make it impossible for even the most diehard of critics to deny.

Did Basilio lose to SRR when he was at his absolute best? Hopkins sure didn't fight Jones anywhere near his 100% latter best, and anyone debating this is in denial. He's not even the same stylist. Granted Jones may well have beaten him at any point, but we will never know as he was miles from peak. Jones may well have beaten almost any 160 ever even at that time anyway, considering his incredible god given talents. I routinely pick him over Hagler and Monzon. His freakish attributes allow him to be a great chance of beating much more developed and experienced greats.

I could tear Jones (especially compared to Hopkins) to pieces via the Tarver and Johnson route. You will always see me go the other way tho, defending Jones as being well past his best at that time. Just like Hopkins was well past his best vs Taylor. Just like Hopkins was way short of peak vs Jones. The thing is Hopkins didn't rely so much on freakish speed and reflexes like Roy did, and is much more durable, certainly at the latter times. Once Jones lost his physical edge he was cactus it seems. He didn't have the great technical base and durability to still not only survive, but wreak havok as Hopkins has done.

I'll slowly drive some Hopkins appreciation into you, even if it takes me 10 years!!!

:yep
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I haven't ignored this mate, I'll try and find the time today if possible (i've always time for one line japery of course).

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The Most Overrated Fighters - By Weightclass

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The Most Overrated Fighters - By Weightclass

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