Carlos Ortiz vs. Floyd Mayweather

what weight?

130)Floyd
135)Carlos
140)Floyd
147)Floyd

 

Obviously not 130 or 147, as Ortiz didn't fight at either weight. And what exactly makes you think there would be a significant difference in the outcome between 135 and 140?

Carlos beats Floyd at either 135 or 140 IMO. A top notch technician in every area, particularly on the inside, where his strength and skill would pose similar problems that Castillo's did (even moreso really), while his outside skills would have him faring much better in that aspect than Castillo.

 

Ortiz isnt anywhere near as strong as Castillo simply because Castillo was so much bigger and would weigh 155 after rehydrating on fight night against a 135lb-138lb Floyd who didn't dehydrate to make weight, Ortiz would also be in this range being an old school fighter with same day weigh ins. Lets not forget in Mayweather-Castillo 1, FMJ won the first 4-5rounds before breaking his hands, injuring his shoulder and breaking his ribs (curtesy of Castillo), FMJ also pulled through in the championship rounds

Ortiz is a wonderful fighter to watch but outside of workrate Mayweather is better in every department. Mayweather certainly has a big speed advantage of both hand and foot on Ortiz. Mayweather also has the more slippery defense, was the more accurate shot picker and takes himself out of risk of being hit by fighting conservatively. Ortiz is a great technician, great bob and weave head movement, fast sharp combinations and excellent in every category other than huge power. Even so Mayweather may well win every round but Ortiz would have his successes.

8-4 Mayweather UD or late TKO/KO

 

Yet Castillo couldn't even out-muscle Corrales? Walk-around weight doesn't mean a goddamn thing.

Oh wait, you're the same guy who said Castillo had a better resume than Ortiz.

Don't forget about Floyd's sore big toe, and his hangover from the night before. Also, he clearly had his mind on the woman in the front row he'd just porked pre-fight, and had a toothache. Any more excuses?

As far as I know, the only legitimate one you even mentioned there was the shoulder injury, though it didn't seem to affect him much IMO.

Ortiz is stronger, better on the inside, more powerful, and stylistically is the perfect type of fighter to trouble Floyd, especially the longer the fight lasts. And there isn't a chance Floyd wins every round, that's just downright ******ed. It takes a very simple mind to think that way, honestly. The far less skilled Castillo is arguably beating him, yet he's shutting out and possibly stopping Ortiz? You have some of the worst opinions.

 

I like Ortiz by decision. I think Castillo is a couple levels below Ortiz. I just watched Buchanan - Laguna II last night. It was Laguna's last fight and he fought a tremendous, high paced fight. It just kind of reinforces to me how good Ortiz was. I'd pick Laguna over Mayweather also. Weight doesn't trump skill. Would Castillo beat Ortiz? I don't know, would Donnie Lalonde beat Leonard? Ruiz over Jones?

 

1. Do you actually follow boxing? Its not walk around weight its solid WEIGHT IN THE RING. And Corrales was also 155 in the ring against Castillo and 147 in the ring against Mayweather. Both were JMWs against FMJ, Ortiz never had to face such big men.

2. Castillo has Mayweather, Corrales, Casamayor, Diaz, Stevie Johnston, Bazan, Lazcano, Ricky Hatton. Thats every fighter at and around his weight in a very very good era but if you dont follow boxing you wouldn't know.

3. Not excuses but reasons why he had an off night in an impecable career, it was possably also learning fight. Mayweather won the fight and did have damaged shoulder and breaking his ribs (curtesy of Castillo), FMJ also pulled through in the championship rounds. These were all reported after the event, whether you believe them is upto you. Every fighter other than Floyd is allowed a close fight or an off night?

4. Ortiz stronger? I didn't see him bulling opponents round the same way Castillo/Hatton did on the inside. Mayweather's strength is underrated in the clinches and when has Mayweather ever come off worse on the inside game? How is Ortiz the more powerful? He isn't a huge puncher and Another underrated part of FMJ's game is flush power, Tyszu is 1 of the biggest punchers of our time yet couldn't put away Hatton. Morales couldn't stop Chavez, no one else could stop Corrales until he was past it.

In case your simple mind hadn't processed this. Ortiz is a lightweight, Castillo is effectively a 154lber and styles and sizes make fights.

 

SweetPea is ****ing hilarious but dead on...:good

I saw the title of the thread and thought "Man, Ortiz would be a nightmare for Floyd" Ortiz has multiple ranges he can operate from on a top level and coupled with his stamina and good punching power, he would negate Floyd's advantages he enjoys most of the time.

Even Floyd's speed would get nullified at points in the fight due to Carlos' skill in cutting off the ring and his ability to figure out an opponent quickly....

Ortiz can take this by UD 7-5 if he comes in top shape.

 

I would just like to add that Tszyu had his punches smothered and was not as fleet footed as Floyd. This goes to your styles make fights arguments.

Floyd was also landing flush shots at 147 for three quarters of the fight. Kostya if he lands cleanly, ices Hatton much quicker.

 

Who knows but Castillo is better and more proven than Ruiz and Lalonde. And he isn't a world away from Duilio Loi stylistically

Castillo gave FMJ 1 close fight but didnt get the W and the myth that it was a robbery is probably there because 1) HBO said so 2) people not watching the fight, 3) Mexican fans and people disliking FMJ. Castillo lost the first 5rounds before having any successes. You can make a good case for it being an 8-4 win to FMJ, as good a case as a 7-5 for JLC

Anyway I haven't seen all of Ortiz's fights but did he never have any close controversal 1s?

 

Hatton did smother KT but KT landed a good few clean, both rights and long left hooks. Especially in the early-mid rounds, but Hatton walked through them and gave KT a beating. People say RH just wrestled and mauled KT but he also beat him to the punch on the outside and mid range before coming in.

I wouldn't dispute Tyszu is a bigger puncher than FMJ, just FMJ is more accurate and lands flusher more often from start to finnish.

 

True, I would like to point out that Carlos was effective outside and inside thus, giving Floyd fits. In a multi fight series, I cannot see the winner going ahead of the other by more than 3 rounds.

 

Yes, I agree with you that Castillo is better than Ruiz or Lalonde. I think Castillo was a very good fighter (I'll stop short of calling him a great fighter). I see Castillo as a little rough around the edges in comparison to Ortiz.
I also agree with you that Mayweather-Castillo I wasn't a robbery. I do however believe that it provided a blueprint for beating Floyd and that Ortiz had superior attributes to Castillo and would better execute this plan. In addition, Ortiz was a superior outside fighter to Castillo and would not be overmatched by Mayweather at any range.

 

First of all, it all depends under which weigh-in ruleset they'd be fighting at. Under modern weigh-ins, Ortiz would have the same advantages of allowing himself to come in at a better, more natural weight, as he was a very strong, heavily muscled fighter that would've easily weighed in at well over 140 pounds for a LW fight on fight night. Castillo would have a weight advantage, nothing else substantial. If done by classic weigh-in rules, Castillo would be stopped early due to being far too weight-drained.

Yes, because Bazan and Lazcano are such resume-stuffers.:roll:

Let's compare that (many of which Castillo lost by the way) to Ortiz's resume:

Loi, Locche, Laguna, Brown, Elorde, Ramos, Lane, Torres, Cruz, Bizzarro, Matthews, etc. 6 HOF'ers in that group, all of which he beat. If you follow boxing you'll understand the difference between the two resumes.

That was the best fighter he fought, the fact that it was so close speaks more to the the fact that a fighter on the level of Castillo (who's clearly behind the likes of most on Ortiz's resume, and definitely Ortiz himself) would've always troubled Floyd, even in the rematch, where Floyd fought a much more conservative fight and still didn't look great, Castillo winning about 4 rounds.

That just goes to show that you haven't seen much of Ortiz. He was an absolute bull inside, a tremendously strong and damaging in-fighter, as well as a great finisher and dictater of pace due to his style.

Against Castillo, for one, obviously. Otherwise which top in-fighters has he faced? Hatton wasn't even allowed his usual roughing tactics, which more than make up for the majority of his success on the inside, otherwise he's not particularly skilled in there. Ortiz is on a different level.

Ortiz is clearly more powerful, not you're reaching. He was a legitimately damaging, clubbing puncher, whether he was wearing you down with his brutal inside work or landing flush, debilitating shots to the head and body, he was without question the more punishing puncher, even if Floyd'd accuracy and speed allows him to land with pop.

Tszyu was clearly past his prime against Hatton, and IMO always at a disadvantage against the mauling pressure fighters anyway, though he'd probably have beaten him prime for prime. Not to mention Hatton's durability and overall effectiveness at WW was already questionable from his bout with Collazo.

Castillo is heavier, nothing else. No other advantages, none, and in case your simple mind hadn't processed it by now, re-read my first counter-argument to this point. Castillo is not on Ortiz's level as a LW, regardless of his fight night weight. Little Stevie Johnston can bang with him but Ortiz can't? Give me a ****ing break.