Mancini vs Arguello - If only every fight was like this

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Addie, Dec 5, 2008.


  1. Arriba

    Arriba Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    27,148
    6
    Jun 30, 2007
    Mainly because a lot of people think that because Gatti inherited the Blood N Guts mantle from Mancini that Boom Boom was nothing more than a C level fighter. The guys resume for such a short career is really good with Chacon, Frias and Arguello to name a few. He was a very skilled guy who just seemed to subtract from his skill by being to ballsy and hearty at times.

    He just ran into a very special sort of fighter like Arguello.
     
  2. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    15,803
    11,441
    Aug 22, 2004

    ......Well, there's always a Gatti. I always thought Gatti inherited the title from Chacon more than Mancini, but you're right, its a good parallel.

    Let's not forget he also shut out Ramirez over 12 rounds before he won the title. That's a really big win, and one his critics tend to gloss over or never mention when they deride him.
     
  3. Arriba

    Arriba Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    27,148
    6
    Jun 30, 2007
    I think you may be right on the Chacon/Mancini issue. Honestly I can't tell you either way because I didn't live through the Mancini/Chacon era but I always figured it went Mancini-Gatti and then Katsidis.

    I often times feel like Mancini is glossed over because he was the purest boxer alive. In a sense it's allowed his true skills to go very under the radar because nobody remembers him being skilled.

    I've always wondered how Arguello would be viewed in today's era. I could see a lot of people referring to him as boring because of his unbelievable ability to pace himself and set up his spots.

    At the same time I imagine people would fall in love with the humble foreigner who took on all comers.
     
  4. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    15,803
    11,441
    Aug 22, 2004


    .............Nah; Arguello would be remembered fondly no matter what era. Because he was there to do battle and had only an average defense, he's a lock for any favorites list.


    Here's Chacon in what was in my opinion the greatest fight ever. Gatti was a worthy successor, but Jesus..........


    [YT]9fHl3FLPrUE[/YT]
     
  5. Addie

    Addie Myung Woo Yuh! Full Member

    42,502
    402
    Jun 14, 2006
    Absolutely. There is something quirky about Alexis' style. This super nice character outside of the ring, and a wrecking machine inside it. Make no mistake, Arguello wasn't a knockout artist on the level of a Jackson, Tyson, or Zarate, but he had an unbelievable right hand, and one of the hardest hitters at 130 ever.

    People are attracted to knockouts, and devastating action, you got that a lot with Alexis because, as you say, his defence was nothing special. He could take a shot, and he would take shots, but then he'd give it out also. That's always appealing to casual and hardcore fans.
     
  6. Arriba

    Arriba Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    27,148
    6
    Jun 30, 2007
    I only ask about Arguello because watching Carlos Monzon tapes (or what there is to watch) makes me think that he'd be blasted as being boring and/or overly cautious.

    Chacon was/is a microcosm of all that is good and bad about boxing. One of the biggest rise and fall stories in boxing.
     
  7. Addie

    Addie Myung Woo Yuh! Full Member

    42,502
    402
    Jun 14, 2006
    Arguello was in a fair few exciting fights during his career. Mancini, Escalera 1 +2, Pryor, etc. His style allowed for action, but I can only watch in awe as he waits to unload on the right hand. He picks his shots, he's so strong mentally that it doesn't matter what happens, he's going to keep his composure and wait for that opening.

    I think Alexis would be a real favourite today, probably not in the mainstream, but Boxing is no longer a mainstream sport. The casual and hardcore fans probably wouldn't have a bad word to say to him, although a lot of idiots on the General Forum would say he was exposed after Pryor 1.
     
  8. Arriba

    Arriba Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    27,148
    6
    Jun 30, 2007
    Arguello would easily have a niche in the south eastern/north eastern region. The problem is instead of letting him draw big numbers in the florida pan handle or in the southern parts of the U.S, he'd be forced to fight in Vegas in front of a neutral crowd with no supporters thus eliminating part of his appeal. Arguello vs JMM, Ricky Hatton and a wide assortment of the characters in the 130-140 range would be really fun to watch.

    Aaron Pryor on the other hand would probably be boxing's biggest star if he was boxing these days.
     
  9. Addie

    Addie Myung Woo Yuh! Full Member

    42,502
    402
    Jun 14, 2006
    Pryor was all action. Great fighter.

    I think Jmm vs Arguello would have been a tremenous matchup at 130, but I'm skeptical about how Juan handles Arguello's power. Pacquiao was a big hitter, but he never had the one punch power that Arguello did, who actually carried it all the way up to 140. Pryor being the exception, he was a force of a nature during those times.

    Hatton has nothing for Arguello, I don't think. He brings the aggressiveness and pressure of a Pryor, but not as sustained and with not as much power. Honestly, Hatton makes a habbit out of winging his right hook, which makes him open for the right hand. Arguello would land that all day long, and probably catch him coming in with the left hook also. At 140, I still favour Arguello at 12 or 15.
     
  10. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    15,803
    11,441
    Aug 22, 2004


    .............As good as Arguello's right was, I wouldn't rate it above his hook. Or jab. Had a hell of an uppercut, too.


    There really wasn't a punch he didn't throw perfectly. No one shot really stands out.
     
  11. Addie

    Addie Myung Woo Yuh! Full Member

    42,502
    402
    Jun 14, 2006
    I think out of all his weapons, the jab was the least impressive. It was straight and effective, but the way he delivered his straight right, left hook, and right uppercut, was just on a different planet. He carried his left hand low sometimes, and it wouldn't be unusual for Arguello to be countered whilst using the jab. Rather than do damage with his jab, he often just laid it out there to line his opponet up for the right hand. Great weapon, regardless.

    Arguello had knockout power in both hands, he could counter Hatton with a left hook or a right hand and hurt him either way. The Rooney knockout, one punch knockout, happened at 140 so we know he didn't miraculously lose his power when moving up. Pryor was a force of a nature, and argue if any 140lb fighter of today was taking those shots, Arguello would have gotten that elusive 4th title.
     
  12. Arriba

    Arriba Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    27,148
    6
    Jun 30, 2007
    Hatton is made to order for a fighter with a decent counter hook. Mayweather exposed it and lower level guys like Lazcano and Malignaggi were able to use it effectively. The way that I see it the first few hooks that Arguello landed would put Hatton into serious peril. I think Hatton would have a hard time seeing the distance.

    JMM or Pac against Arguello would be a lot closer IMO.
     
  13. Addie

    Addie Myung Woo Yuh! Full Member

    42,502
    402
    Jun 14, 2006
    Counter hooks don't get much better than Arguello's, and with Hatton baring in, I could see some uppercuts coming in behind the hook. Bad match-up for Hatton.

    I favor Alexis over the other tw at 130 and 135, but Alexis struggled with slick boxers. They don't get much more slick than Marquez. Maybe Olivares/Arguello 2 that one.
     
  14. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    15,803
    11,441
    Aug 22, 2004

    ..........Whhaaaa? He had an awesome jab. I only ask this out of curiosity, what other Arguello fights have you seen?

    The Mancini fight though, was a textbook clinic in the jab. It snapped Mancini's head back and disrupted his rhythm. I actually thought that by the time he got to lightweight, Arguello had become a bit more wooden, and if you watch his featherweight or junior-lightweight efforts, he looked a lot more fluid.
     
  15. Addie

    Addie Myung Woo Yuh! Full Member

    42,502
    402
    Jun 14, 2006
    Seemed more inconsistant than anything to me in the Mancini fight, but I'll be certain to rewatch it in full tomorrow. I've seen Arguello vs Mancini, Pryor 1+2, Escalera 1+2, Rooney, Costello, Jim Watt, and a few more but the the names of the opponents I've forgotten. A lot of his full fights are on youtube now, a channel dedicated. I watched a lot on there. Check it out.

    Perhaps the jab is more subtle than his money shots, so I've not really grown to appreciate them as much. It just seems inconsistant a lot of the times, but I could be overlooking it.