Pacquiao knocking on Whitaker's door as far as resume is concerned

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Sweet Pea Pacquiao, Dec 8, 2008.


  1. Sweet Pea Pacquiao

    Sweet Pea Pacquiao Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Whitaker is currently ranked by The Ring as #10 All-Time (see below):

    1. Sugar Ray Robinson
    2. Henry Armstrong
    3. Muhammad Ali
    4. Joe Louis
    5. Roberto Duran
    6. Willie Pep
    7. Harry Greb
    8. Benny Leonard
    9. Sugar Ray Leonard
    10. Pernell Whitaker


    Now put Manny's current career in perspective when placed side by side with Sweet Pea's:


    WHITAKER'S NOTABLE FIGHTS (+ win, - loss, = draw):

    World Champ at 135 (Lineal, WBC, WBA, IBF)
    +Roger Mayweather (UD12)...in his 12th fight!
    -,+Jose Luis Ramirez (SD12, UD12)...robbery in the first fight
    +Greg Haugen (UD12)
    +Freddie Pendleton (UD12)
    +Juan Nazario (KO1)
    +Azumah Nelson (UD12)
    +Jorge Paez (UD12)

    World Champ at 140 (WBC)
    +Rafael Pineda (UD12)

    World Champ at 147 (Lineal, WBC)

    +,+Buddy McGirt (UD12, UD12)
    =Julio Cesar Chavez (D12)...robbery
    +,+Wilfredo Rivera (SD12, UD12)
    +Diosbelys Hurtado (TKO11)...I always wonder if he had a coke boost between rds a la Pryor vs. Arguello
    -Oscar De La Hoya (UD12)...close, but I thought Whitaker won
    -Felix Trinidad (UD12)...a past-prime Pea was dominated

    World Champ at 154 (WBC)
    +Julio Cesar Vasquez (UD12)

    ______________________________

    PACQUIAO'S NOTABLE FIGHTS (+ win, - loss, = draw):

    World Champ at 112 (Lineal, WBC)
    +Chatchai Sasakul (KO8}...won title at age 19!
    -Medgoen Singsurat (KOby3)...weight-drained

    World Champ at 122 (IBF)
    +Lehlohonolo Ledwaba (TKO6)
    =Agapito Sanchez (TD6)...Sanchez should've been DQ'd for repeated low blows
    +Jorge E. Julio (TKO2)
    +Emmanuel Lucero (TKO3)

    World Champ at 126 (Lineal)
    +Marco Antonio Barrera (TKO11)
    =Juan Manuel Marquez (D12)

    World Champ at 130 (Lineal, WBC)
    -,+,+Erik Morales (UD12, TKO10, KO3)...Morales's first win was clear
    +Oscar Larios (UD12)
    +Jorge Solis (KO8}
    +Marco Antonio Barrera (UD12)
    +Juan Manuel Marquez (SD12)

    World Champ at 135 (WBC)
    +David Diaz (TKO9)

    Non-Title Superfight at 147
    +Oscar De La Hoya (TKO8}

    ____________________________________

    FINAL STATS:

    Whitaker: Champ in 4 weight classes, 2 linear titles, 6 ABC belts
    Pacquiao: Champ in 5 weight classes, 3 linear titles, 4 ABC belts

    Whitaker: 12-3-1 against current or former champs
    Pacquiao: 11-2-2 against current or former champs

    Whitaker: holds wins at 135, 140, 147, 154
    Pacquiao: holds wins at 108, 112, 115, 122, 126, 130, 135, 147
     
  2. Sweet Pea Pacquiao

    Sweet Pea Pacquiao Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I have Manny somewhere from 15-20, but any combination of wins over Marquez, Hatton, or Mayweather would help his cause even further.
     
  3. pryorgatti

    pryorgatti Active Member Full Member

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    I respect your post but what's your conclusion? Pacquiao at #11 all-time P4P?
     
  4. Sweet Pea Pacquiao

    Sweet Pea Pacquiao Boxing Addict Full Member

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    That Pacquiao is getting closer to Pea's status, especially if he can pull out a victory over Hatton, Mayweather, or Marquez. Right now I put him at 15-20.

    Another stat worthy of note is that Pacquiao has also matched Whitaker at gaining consensus #1 P4P status, in my estimation the smallest P4P #1 ever.
     
  5. pryorgatti

    pryorgatti Active Member Full Member

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    The smallest and arguably the most exciting at the same time. Very rare to have THE blood & guts warrior at the #1 spot P4P lol

    ok, but victories over Hatton, Mayweather, and/or Marquez mean that Pac is FAR from Pea's status IMO.
     
  6. Sweet Pea Pacquiao

    Sweet Pea Pacquiao Boxing Addict Full Member

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    FAR as in above or below Pea? Keep in mind that Pea was my favorite fighter ever until Pac came along, as my handle suggests, so I try to be as objective as possible.
     
  7. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    In terms of accomplishments on paper, Pacquiao is knocking on damn near everyone's door, as he's a weight-jumping marvel. In terms of quality of opposition beaten, not so much.
     
  8. harrison

    harrison feu-nrmf md 2005 Full Member

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    the way pac manhandled his opponents (TKO/KO) compared to pea's (UD/SD) is mind blowing. of course, sweet science or not, i still weigh how you finished off your opponents. everyone has his preference.
     
  9. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    I'll take a shutout UD over guys like Ramirez and Haugen over a flukey KO in a fight you're being dominated in against a guy like Sasakul any day.

    And I suppose you don't factor in the actual level of the opposition beaten. That kind of plays a role.
     
  10. chimba

    chimba Off the Somali Coast Full Member

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    Only problem I have with this is that I think Sweat Pea is higher than Duran. I can never forget the way a past prime Pernell toyed with peak DLH.. Pac needs to KO Floyd to surpass Pea
     
  11. Sweet Pea Pacquiao

    Sweet Pea Pacquiao Boxing Addict Full Member

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    But is that really his fault? When he was at 112 in 1998, the best fighter at the time was WBC/Lineal champ Sasakul, and his then-promoters in the Philippines had no intentions or dreams of Manny leaving Asia. Manny took out Sasakul at age 19 no less IN Thailand.

    Then when Murad Muhammad came along and brought him to America in 2001, the best junior feather was IBF champ Ledwaba, who was Top 15 P4P at the time in most publications. KO6. Barrera, Morales, and Hamed had already moved to 126 when Pacquiao came to America. The other beltholders at 122 were the WBO's Sanchez (who low-blowed Manny to a BS draw against a house fighter on a Top Rank card...funny how time flies! Manny was the scourge of Top Rank back then) and the WBC's Larios (who Pac ended up destroying years later anyway). Also worthy of note is that current junior feather king Israel Vazquez became Pacquiao's sparring partner and close friend at Wild Card during his late stages at 122.

    Then to 126, where lo and behold, who was the best feather in the world after beating Hamed, Morales, and Kelley? Ring/Lineal champ Barrera, who was Top 3 P4P at the time, and was thoroughly demolished by Pac-Man in 11. Then who was left at 126? Morales had moved up to 130, so the no-brainer was Marquez, who held both the IBF and WBA belts after embarrassing Mantecas Medina and Smoke Gainer respectively. So Manny took on the best at featherweight without a doubt.

    At 130, meanwhile, Morales had beaten Jesus Chavez for his WBC belt, then unified with Famoso Hernandez for the IBF. Morales was the man at the weight. Then, in an upset, lost to the supposedly faded Barrera. It was clear now that Barrera and Morales were the 1-2 best fighters at junior lightweight. And Manny took them BOTH on, going 3-1 with 2 KOs in the process. Then he beat the next best in the division in Marquez. He cleaned house.

    Now at 135, he left unfinished business, since Diaz was the weakest beltholder, and the best champs at the time were Campbell (who was fresh off beating Juan Diaz) and Casamayor, who still held the Ring/Lineal belt after beating the late Chico Corrales. Marquez did not enter 135 until AFTER Pacquiao fought Diaz and left for 147, where he currently is today.

    So the argument that his quality of opposition and acceptance of challenges to fight the best of the best in the division (save that of lightweight) I think is unfounded.
     
  12. Addie

    Addie Myung Woo Yuh! Full Member

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    Absolutely. Pea's domination over Nelson was pretty special to witness.
     
  13. the cobra

    the cobra Awesomeizationism! Full Member

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    Exactly, well said.
     
  14. Minotauro

    Minotauro Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Ezzard Charles and Sam Langford are a lock top ten their resume are 10 time better then Pac and that is not an overstatement. I like Pacman but he isn't close to these two who should be in everyones p4p list.
     
  15. dangerousity

    dangerousity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I believe that by the end of Pac's career, he will be next to Pea as one of the greatest fighters of their generation. Wether above or below depends on the PBF fight. IMO if Pac beats Hatton, he is 2nd only to Pea.