1.How good was Jersey Joe as a heavyweight? Is he a top 10 heavyweight of all-time? If not, then where do you rank him? Was he a great hw, a very good, or just a good? Does anyone think he is particularly under or overrated? Do you rank him as high as guys like Dempsey, Holyfield, Patterson, Liston, Foreman, Tyson? 2.How good was Jersey Joe as part of his own era? Do you rank him higher than Lloyd Marshall or Jimmy Bivins? On his best day, do you think he was a better heavyweight h2h than Ezzard Charles or Archie Moore? 3.Is Jersey Joe a top 100 OAT p4p guy?
1 - Why would he be in a top 10 at HW? A disputed loss to Louis...he posed a real test for Marciano...he beat Charles twice. No way does he get anyhwere near the top 10. Lower end of a top 20, he should always be in the 25. 2 - He's below Marshall and Bivins p4p for me, though yes, he was was a better Heavy than Bivins, Charles and Moore. 3 - No way. 8 classic weight divisions pluss various additions through the years - that's a **** load of elite fighters. Now consider that HW produces consistently the worst boxers of all the classic weight divisions.
Not sure about a particular ranking (as I'm relying less and less on rankings in general), but indeed he was a great HW at his best. An example of a fighter who improved with age and experience, honings his tricks and ring craft through time spent in the ring with the best rather than in a gym. Master craftsman, unorthodox but very technically skilled, some of the best footwork you're likely to see on a HW. His one punch hookercut KO over Charles is one of the best punches of all time, in many aspects.
Before, Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Holmes, Tyson, Holyfield and Lennox Lewis, Jersey Joe Walcott was one of the top ten all time greatest heavyweights. His achievment before George Foreman broke his record as the oldest heavyweight champion speaks volumes about his ability as an overalll boxer. Jersey Joe didn't have Shavers-Foreman-Liston power or Ali-Holmes-Patterson, hand and foot speed, but he was arguably the craftiest and smartest heavyweights in the history of the sport. He, like Archie Moore was excellent at setting up his punches and using the angles to maximize the effects. Jersey Joe was that good and I'd say makes top 15 of all time heavyweight champions.
I'm not suggesting he should be in a top 10. I just like posting threads about fighters who seem to split opinion then reading the opposing viewpoints, I find it very interesting. I think Jersey Joe is one of those guys. I'm sure there is the odd fan on here who thinks Jersey Joe is worthy of parity with guys like Holyfield and Dempsey as a hw.
As his record stands Jersey Joe is a top 20 all time heavyweight perhaps top 15. Where he is interesting is that perhaps he might have had the potential to be a top 10 all time heavyweight if he had the right oportunities early in his career. Like many early black heavyweights he did not have a good manager or financial backing to operate a training camp. He had to take fights on short notice while working a 9-5 job. Jersey Joe eventualy got his lucky break due to the second world war. With many young men fighting overseas promotors could no longer be picky about the race of the fighters they backed. This resulted in black heavyweights like Walcott and Elmer Ray getting a chance at the 11th hour of their potential primes. Although Walcott lost against his two biggest oponents (Louis and Marciano) he gave them both verry tough fights. What often gets overlooked is that he prety much cleaned out the heavyweight division to get a shot at Louis's crown. It should also be noted that Walcott was the oldest fighter to win the heavyweight title before a certain mr Foreman in the 90s.
Well he was bossed a little bit my the top guys he met up with earlier on. Abe Simon beating him is something that is nearly inexplicable when you watch them both fight...I really think that Walcott continued to improve and improve as he fought, a great advertisement for experience. Audley Harrison but in reverse.
Who would you rank him above out of my 11-15? Wills Foreman Desmpey Hollyfield Jackson And my 16-19? Corbett Schmeling Bowe
Walcott took the Simon fight on two days notice while working a full time job and not training. There are also some reports that suggest he was ill. He gave Simon a boxing lesson untill he ran out of gas then was knocked out as much due to exaustion as anything else. You simply cant box at world level without the necesary backing and training regime. If you gave Walcott a manager, a training camp and adequate time to prepare I honestly dont think Simon would give him a competitive fight.
I think he is in the mix with those boys, but above Schmeling? Really? Schmeling is the pround possessor of the second best win in HW history. His version of Louis is better than the version Walcott extended but couldn't quite beat...Schmeling beat some good fighters, and although I accept that his resume probably isn't as good as Jersey Joe's without the Louis win, that win lifts him, surely?
Well if you put an stock in who was better peak for peak and if you are interested in their very best wins, Bowe is certainly off to a good start.