Dempsey doesn't belong in HW top 5's. Perhaps not HW top 10's.

Even at 37 and only a fraction of what he once was I'd take Louis over all those guys. Willard, that fought Dempsey, was nothing more than a big target and Louis would've decisioned him. Firpo would have been dangerous but Louis still had enough to pick him apart and stop him late after getting off the canvas once or twice. That would actually be an entertaining match.

Fulton and Morris, never seen them but I still take Louis over both, especially Morris but i guess a case could be made for Fulton.

 

I agree

Willard was in far worse condition than a 37 year old louis. willard was 37 4 years inactive and way out of shape. Louis would tee off on willard like he was a punching bag. I like Louis by TKO


Firpo was heavy handed and aggresive, but very unskilled and crude. 37 year old Louis would be smart enough not to get into a slugfest with the younger firpo, and he would carve up firpo with his jab most of the fight flashing in a combination here and there on the inside to pile up the points. louis would fight smart. Louis wins a wide unanimous decision firpos faced all busted up


Fulton would be louis toughest fight. Fulton had some skills and he had a jab, but he had a weak jaw. Louis even at 37 could punch hard, I think he catches fulton midway through the fight and knocks him out in a close fight on the cards until the stoppage win for louis.


Louis runs through a big guy like morris in 2-3 rounds, morris was a punching bag, not durable, just big strong and tough. Louis would outclass him.

 

I'd definitely put Dempsey in my top 5.

There's some great footage of Dempsey-Willard on youtube now, the entire original film with all the pre-fight stuff, Dempsey training, sparring with three different fighters. There's more footage of rounds 2 and 3 than what I've got on my copy of that fight, shows Dempsey pulling out some pretty slick moves in there.
(Thanks to a youtube postor called "mac" something.)
Definitely worth checking out.

 

Time to Maul the Mauler again I see, a couple of things,one of those proposed by you as a possible opponent for Dempsey was Mcvey, since Dempsey won the title in 1919 ,and Mcvey died in 1921 ,he would not have had much time to fit him in would he?
As to Billy Miske,Dempsey last fought him in 1920 koing him in 3 rds,Miske then went 24 fights, over the next 3 years with only one loss to Gibbons ,beating Renault,Fulton,Gibbons,Meehan,Weinert,Roper among others ,in his last fight Miske kod Brennan in 4 rds, not exactly a shell was he?

 

Carpentier was a 167 lbs 20 year old when he lost to Jeannette and he was not taken out he lost a dec.

 

You make a perfectly valid argument, however we have to look at what was going on with Miske at the time. Miske had only won a single one of his most recent five matches, and that victory came against a 3-13-2 nobody. Additionally, he was diagnosed as having an illness, and Dempsey later said that he gave him the match out of shear sympathy for his poor financial situation. It also, makes one wonder what possible conditions the two of them may have agreed upon before lacing them up.

 

Dempsey met Miske twice before that,one was a draw ,and Dempsey got the NWS dec in the other,I assume we can agree Miske was healthy in those fights.

 

Sharkey was winning the fight but was not keen on body shots ,Dempsey kept throwing them, some were borderline,the last body punch was low ,but Sharkey was Kod by the left hook to the jaw,not the low blow.The Miske fight was still a respectable win given Miske's subesequent record.You don't go 3 years ,and 24 fights with only only one loss against rated men if you are at deaths door. Mcvey was losing to the best fighters at the end ,beating only the small Jeff Clark really.Greb wanted to fight Jack ,and told him so when Dempsey offered to pay him to train him for the Tunney fight,but getting the better of a man in a couple of rounds of sparring and doing it over 15 rds are two different things . A faded Dempsey got his ears boxed off by Loughran preparing for Tunney, but in a real fight even an old Mauler would stop Loughran ,imo. Bill Tate and Godfrey are two others who get thrown in ,Tate was Dempsey's long term sparring partner and Godfrey did stint too ,before defecting to be chief spar mate for Firpo,its interesting that although Firpo knocked Dempsey down twice Jack beat the crap out of him whereas Wills the Black Panther only managed a decision,Wills could have forced his claim better, I think,his manager kept him on a diet of well chewed meat ,Tunney offered to fight him ,he refused ,likewise he did not want Godfrey, by the time he took a chance Sharkey beat him without much trouble.Wills was the number 1 contender,but when Tunney's challenge for the right to meet Dempsy was refused a lot of sympathy drifted away from the Panther.

 

Why would Wills or his management think beating Tunney would earn him a shot at Dempsey? Previous wins in eliminations against Fulton and Firpo produced nothing but excuses. Wills was 37 and looking to fight the champion and why not? If he fought Tunney, he would have been at least 38 before he got his shot at Dempsey, in the unlikely event he even got such a shot.

If a man who was the #1 contender for 10 years and ducked all the while loses sympathy for not taking another elimination bout, this time with Tunney, who really cares? Wills made it clear after he beat Firpo that he wanted the champion and no more eliminations. I don't blame him.

 

I agree.

 

I don't blame him either,I was just trawling throught the situation as it stood at the time. No doubt Wills should have gotten his shot,I think Dempsey would have stopped him ,but that's just my opinion,Wills did not get a chance and he should have. Interesting that you brought up Fulton and Firpo, the lasted a total of 15 rds with Wills but less than 3 with Dempsey, and they were fresher and more ambitious when Jack got them.

 

"15 rounds with Wills but less than 3 with Dempsey"

Yes. And Bob Satterfield took out Bob Baker in one round. It took Archie Moore 9 and Clarence Henry 8. So Satterfield is clearly better than Moore or Henry?

David Tua took out John Ruiz in 30 seconds or so. Lennox Lewis beat Tua. Therefore Lewis is a cinch to take out Ruiz in 15 seconds?

This argument really doesn't make much sense. Wills dominated these men also and was 35 when he met Firpo. He still won all twelve rounds and was not off his feet. And why not drag in Gunboat Smith who went 4 and 2 with Dempsey but was blown out in 1 by Wills. The fact is both men dominated these opponents.

The Firpo fights cut both ways. Wills didn't come anywhere close to losing to Firpo. Dempsey did.