Jersey Joe Walcott : how good was he?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by DINAMITA, Dec 9, 2008.


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  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    See the above post for further reasoning.

    I have Wills around ten places higher than Walcott.
     
    McGrain, Dec 9, 2008
    McGrain, Dec 9, 2008
    #31
  2. Minotauro

    Minotauro Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Minotauro, Dec 9, 2008
    Minotauro, Dec 9, 2008
    #32
  3. Chinxkid

    Chinxkid Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I love Walcott's style, a moving target and a thinking fighter. And by the way I think he beats Bowe, not a thinking, imaginative fighter, Walcott would have made his head spin.
     
    Chinxkid, Dec 9, 2008
    Chinxkid, Dec 9, 2008
    #33
  4. Minotauro

    Minotauro Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Walcott wins:
    Charles x2
    Joe Louis
    Harold Johnson
    Joe Maxim x2
    Curtis Sheppard (on par with Cooper)
    Jimmy Bivins
    Elmar Ray x2
    Lee Q Murray
    Tommy Gomez
    Lee Oma
     
    Minotauro, Dec 9, 2008
    Minotauro, Dec 9, 2008
    #34
  5. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    When I think of Joe Walcott, the song sentimental journey comes to mind.


    Gonna take a Sentimental Journey,
    Gonna set my heart at ease.
    Gonna make a Sentimental Journey,
    to renew old memories.

    Got my bags, got my reservations,
    Spent each dime I could afford.
    Like a child in wild anticipation,
    I Long to hear that, "All aboard!"

    Seven...that's the time we leave at seven.
    I'll be waitin' up at heaven,
    Countin' every mile of railroad
    track, that takes me back.

    Never thought my heart could be so yearny.
    Why did I decide to roam?
    Gotta take that Sentimental Journey,
    Sentimental Journey home.
    Sentimental Journey.
     
    mr. magoo, Dec 9, 2008
    mr. magoo, Dec 9, 2008
    #35
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    McGrain, Dec 9, 2008
    McGrain, Dec 9, 2008
    #36
  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Both are hovering around 18-21 in mine. I think that it is fair to rank them in any order, to be fair, I have Schmeling above both.
     
    McGrain, Dec 9, 2008
    McGrain, Dec 9, 2008
    #37
  8. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    Classic fighters are like scotch whiskey. They seem to get better with age.
     
    mr. magoo, Dec 9, 2008
    mr. magoo, Dec 9, 2008
    #38
  9. Rebel-INS

    Rebel-INS Mighty Healthy Full Member

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    I respect your opinion McGrain, but surely you don't actually believe the two Golota "wins" add anything to Bowe's legacy?
     
    Rebel-INS, Dec 9, 2008
    Rebel-INS, Dec 9, 2008
    #39
  10. Minotauro

    Minotauro Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Minotauro, Dec 9, 2008
    Minotauro, Dec 9, 2008
    #40
  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Yeah, I do. Not because of the win, but because there is no loss.

    Bowe didn't quit and wasn't sparked - only the singular loss remains.
     
    McGrain, Dec 9, 2008
    McGrain, Dec 9, 2008
    #41
  12. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    I have to agree here, and often wonder why more people don't see it from that perspective. I clearly remember watching both of Bowe's attrocious outings with Golata, and frankly he looked, well atrocious. But nevertheless, it wasn't his fault that Golata chose to fight that match the way he did.
     
    mr. magoo, Dec 9, 2008
    mr. magoo, Dec 9, 2008
    #42
  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Well, that's true, I've acknowledged it. I think that Walcott is a great fighter inspite of those losses, and rate him inside the top 25 for his weight division,all time, arguably just inside the twenty. But there are other fighters who are heavily matched early in their careers (Liston being a good example) who manage a better return than two thirds of their fights.

    Yes, but this is a balancing act. You have to weigh these things directly against one another and find an answer. In short, just becaue Jones has a better skillset/head to head capability than Tunney but gets ranked behind him doesn't mean the same thing has to happen here. It's just a precident, nothing more.

    1 - Walcott didn't beat Louis. He lost to him twice. You can't change history just because you don't like it. 2/3 of the press found for Walcott. 2/3 of the judges found for Louis. Louis wins. I have hig
    hlights. You have highlights. My highlights have it close for Walcott. Yours have it however you have it. But the result stands.

    2 - Ray doesn't make my top 30, I disagree that he can be considered a lock, although I accept he is a contender for a spot.

    3 - Why are we talking about the top 30? Why not the top 15? Walcott against the top 15 - 0-4. Bowe against the top 15 - 2-1. Unless of course you have Charles in your fifteen, which is defendable, but not my position. Walcott then runs to 2-5. Either way, Bowe, when matched against the best has come out better.

    Liston also lost one between turning pro and winning the title.
     
    McGrain, Dec 9, 2008
    McGrain, Dec 9, 2008
    #43
  14. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    There's a lot of backwards boxing perspective when it comes to rankings. For example,

    "Moore was unlucky to lose the second fight with Charles and Ezzard came back from the brink to KO Moore who was also a bit unlucky to lose the third."

    Now I actually think that is fair enough, but how about

    "Moore was betean close but clear in the first fight, and dropped a thin decision second time out before being KO'd in the third fight in a thrilling trade."?

    It's true that Bowe looked rubbish against Golota but it needs to be remembered that past his prime he emerged unbeaten by virtue of the fact he was able to hold on.
     
    McGrain, Dec 9, 2008
    McGrain, Dec 9, 2008
    #44
  15. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    I think Bowe at his peak was one of the most skilled HW's of all time, sincerely. I think very highly of him. But if the points you're arguing with Minotauro are indeed the case, should Bowe rank ahead of say, Marciano? He was better head to head clearly IMO, and holds wins over a better opponent in Holyfield than Marciano ever beat. So is there a case to be made that Bowe can rank ahead of Rock?
     
    Sweet Pea, Dec 9, 2008
    Sweet Pea, Dec 9, 2008
    #45
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