Gene Tunney (heavyweight version) replaces Patterson during his career

Can we asume that he is motivated to train over that period and can keep bringing his A game?

It is one thing to bring your A game to a title fight and another to keep bringing it repeatedly after you have already won the title.

Untill you see it you never really know what is going to happen.

 

Tunney beats them all ,barring Ali .Liston would be tough ,and Machen would be close.

 

I say that Tunney was a better Heaveyweight than Patterson, though not by a whole lot. For instance, a Patterson v Tunney matchup could go either way in my bool. Patterson was quick enough to get past Tunney's defense, at least sometimes. But, I think if you gave Tunney time to study up on Patterson, he would find a way to decision him.

 

Tunney would lose to Ali twice and Moore the Liston fights would be a lot closer I'd favour Sonny but Gene is a tough style also Machen, Bonavena and Quarry would be tough fights especially caused he would be old by the Bonavena and Quarry fights. He would beat all the rest.

 

My take, for whatever it is worth. I am assuming a prime Tunney throughout because that is the way Chris meant him to be in his thread starter.

So here goes:

Tunney vs Moore '56 :- At HW, Tunney outpoints Moore.

Tunney vs Johansson I '58 :- Tunney stops Ingo late, though there may be a knockdown shock for Tunney.

Tunney vs Johansson II '59 :- Same as the first fight.

Tunney vs Johansson III '60 : Same as the first fight.

Tunney vs Liston I '62 :- Tunney does well till the 5th round or so, but is then caught and stopped.

Tunney vs Liston II '63 :- A very prepared and watchful Tunney survives till the 8th round against an over confident Liston and then takes Sonny into deep water. Close decision win for Tunney over a very tired Liston.

Tunney vs Machen '64 :- Tunney proves to be the faster and sharper boxer over the skillful Machen in a boring bout. UD for Tunney.

Tunney vs Chuvalo '65 :- Tiring and boring UD win for Tunney.

Tunney vs Ali '65 :- Tunney creates a few problems for a rather green Ali. But Muhammad's greater speed, sharp machine gun punching, reach, unorthodox style and natural athleticism cramps the free flowing rhythm of Tunney and enables Ali to either stop Tunney late or win by close UD.

Tunney vs Quarry I '67 :- Gene outpoints Jerry regardless of Quarry opting for his counter punching style or slam-them-bang-them style.

Tunney vs Quarry II '67 :- Quarry chooses the style he did not choose in their first fight. Same result.

Tunney vs Bonavena '72 :- A motivated Ringo in the proper frame of mind could pressurise Tunney and make it tricky for him. But I still think that, overall, Tunney would be too good for Bonavena. I hope people do not think of Jimmy Ellis here. Oscar understimated Ellis and came to grief. I am assuming he takes Tunney seriously, the same as Ali. Hard fought UD for Gene.

Tunney vs Ali II '72 :- Ali, now slower but more savvy. Maybe a wee bit stronger. This Ali fights Tunney calmly and does enough to pick up the necessary points for an UD. Of course, Tunney too has his moments.

 

Tunney-Moore - Moore UD, 9-6, Moore is technically far better and craftier and the bigger better puncher. Tunney fought with his hands down and Moore would time shots on him. I can actually see Moore KO'ing Tunney because of this. Tunney had the advantage of youth and speed and a great naturalboxer, but Moore is better.

Johansen - very underrated, the Swede was actually great against boxers looked how he took Machen out in 1 and KO'd Patterson.

Tunney UD or Johhansen KO

Liston - Tunney would box and use angles, Liston would time his jab and work the body before landing big shots that would close the show around the 3rd/4th. Tunney would pay for going up against such a puncher with his hands low. If Tunney is very negative he may escape losing a widish UD

Machen - UD 10-5, both boxer types, Tunney better but Machen could push him

Chuvalo - UD 11-4 - Tunney would easily outbox Chuvalo but Chuvalo will win rounds with his pressure, being stronger, relentless and working the body

Ali - Ali mid rounds stoppage or wide UD. Beats Tunney at his own game and is bigger to boot

Quarry - are we to assume a prime Tunney or a Tunney who'd be in his 11th year of championship boxing? Prime for prime its a hard 1 to call, Quarry fought far tougher opposition, if Prime Quarry fought a Faded Past Prime Dempsey could he dethrone him, he'd be a heavy favourate by many who know their boxing. Quarry beat a prime Lyle, Shavers, Foster and pushed Frazier hard. Allin a prime for prime would be a close fight, past prime older Tunney loses to Quarry (Gene never fought past 31 though)

Bonavena - see the above question, Tunney should win a wide UD but depends how much he would have left by this stage

Ali 2 - Tunney takes another beating

 

Tunney reigns from 56 beating all, including Moore and Johnasson, until he accepts the Liston challenge, around late 1959 perhaps.

 

If we take out prime years, and Tunney ages as we all do, I think Tunney would have lost some were down the line. Tunney beats all but Ali about imo, prime for prime.

 

I totally agree. Stylists and movement could really trouble Sonny- Clay, Marshall, Machen (to some extent) and I think Gene would tot up a decent lead, but Sonny would club him down around the 7th.

 

If Tunney is 21 at the time he fights Moore, I think he loses without doubt.

The three fights with Johansson would be between 1921 and 1923 when Tunney was a lightheavy. Johansson would have 20 lbs on him. I don't know. Tunney was not in fact at this point, and for that matter at any point, handling 195 lb heavyweights.

Liston would be fought in 1924 and 1925. Tunney would have a chance to outspeed him certainly, but who did Tunney fight who was anywhere near Liston's size and with a left jab? I think a reasonable pick would be Liston, although I certainly see Tunney doing much better than Patterson did.

Machen in 1926 and Chuvalo in 1927--Tunney should win these. Machen was slipping and Chuvalo just seems to be the type of ponderous plodder made to order for Tunney.

Ali in 1927-forget it.

Quarry in 1929--I can see Tunney winning this. He didn't seem to have gone back yet in 1928, but again he is fighting a young fighter who brings more to the table in size and skill than he generally faced. Tunney's career was mainly at lightheavy.

The Ali and Bonavena fights would be in 1934. Ali-forget it. Bonavena? Whatever one thinks of Tunney's chances at his peak, he would have been six years into retirement at this point.

What this exercise proved to me was how much longer Patterson was a top fighter than Tunney. Tunney was on top for 6 years from the Levinsky to Heeney fights. Patterson fought top men for 18 years, from the Maxim to the second Ali fights.