Frazier in Marciano's position

There is always the shot of being stop by a cut, any one can be cut if hit right. Even Ali got cut.

 

If a prime Frazier was teleported back to Marciano's time and fought the same opponents that Rocky fought then we'd see the 2nd undefeated heavyweight champion in history. Who beats him? who has enough firepower ala Foreman to hold him off or stop him? Frazier fought at a quicker pace than Marciano which means that he'd get to his opponents earlier than Rocky did. Joe wouldn't have to chase any of them like he did Ali and none of Rocky's opponents were particularly fleet of foot. They were there to be hit. Frazier was used to fighting bigger men and faster ones too. There were no Ali's, Foremans, Ellis's, Fosters, Bugners or Quarrys in the 50's. Joe fought in probably the deepest HW division of all time and was a champion for a time in it as well. Frazier at his best is at least Rocky's equal so if Rocky could go undefeated in that era then so could Joe.

 

Frazier, Foreman and Ali were in a different league to the 50s light heavy champs. Even Floyd Patterson had a chance against them - he demolished Archie Moore but himself was demolished twice by Liston who had no chance against Ali. Floyd had no chance against Frazier, Foreman or Ali. Time to get real!!!!! They may have a chance against Foreman after he lost to Ali but before that no chance.

 

Saying Floyd Patterson "had no chance" against Ali, Frazier, and Foreman is misleading when he didn't even fight two of them and was well past his best in the second Ali fight.

 

Worshiping at the shrine of Ali I see.

 

Frazier would not be able to fight 49 fights due to his style of fighting. His body would break down and he would still suffer from the same arthritic problems that he did when he fought. He certainly would have a much longer title reign but would eventually lose to Walcott or even maybe Charles.

Coming from a big fan of his, I think he would fall out of his prime around 1953, even aginst weaker opposition, he would still break down from the years of fighting. I think Joe would end up with like a 47-2 record and that's being generous.

 

I couldn't agree more. I don't think Frazier could have replicated Marciano's run as a fighter as Rocky was quite lucky to achieve this himself. Like Old Fogey said, with the late start and the early opposition, Frazier is bound to lose a few. He is a class above everybody Marciano's fought, but to repeat Rocky's undefeated streak he'd have to have a certain element of luck on his side. Add Joe's numerous ailments and it's quite probable he doesn't reach his fortieth fight just like his career as it actually panned out.

 

People seem to forget that Fraizer was going blind in one eye BEFORE the first Ali fight.

 

On the other hand Harold Johnson has a better record against common oponents than Sonny Liston and Muhamad Ali.

I dont think that the 70s crew would necisarily be a marchpast against the 50s crowd.

 

Frazier actually suffered the injury to his eye in 65 I believe and only Joe and Fitch knew about it so he fought his whole career while being basically blind in one eye so I think he would be ok since he was pretty much used to it.

 

Best point made...People dont realize the hard work to be so well trained and ready. I think the Frazier of Ali 1 would have consistanly beat the Ali of 2 and 3. the difference in those two fights was Frazier and how he slipped. I see Frazier having trouble with Walcotts serious pinpoint power and a master boxer like Walcott and Charles could avoid the better side of a one armed fighter. IF is a big word but IF a prime Frazier of Ellis or Ali 1 fought those guys he would have a better chance but there is still a big difference between the power of a Walcott to that of Ali and JJ was slick and landed those pinpoint power shots, still a fighter that got hit often and hurt like Frazier would not be well served in a fight vs Walcott. Ezzard is also adaptable and that fight would be a tough fight for Frazier even at his best. and the other opponents on the way up like Lastarza and Layne could give as well as Bonevena did. Frazier had a very short window of prime in his 1st 27 fights and went downhill from there...Tyson a few more before the slide...Marciano went up hill with every fight and stayed in tip top condition...a snapshot of perfection capped off by a perfect record which was no accident, it was planned by the hard work and top fitness along with will power, power and relentlessness of Rocky. Chris the point you make is very true it is hard to stay in that form for 49 fights

 

I would make him favorite over any of Marciano's opponents, but the problem is that Joe didn't retain the same kind of drive and motivation after reaching the pinnacle of boxing that Rocky did. Frazier slipped substantially after his "water-shed" against Ali, lost intensity and gained 10 pounds. It seems probable this would happen in a theoretical '50s career, the same way it happens to almost all champions at some point, and he would suffer an upset.

 

Yeah, 49 fights is a lot and Frazier nearly lost early on to guys comparable to many Marciano opponents. Someone might finish what Bonavena nearly accomplished and pull off the big upset.

What Marciano did was incredible and while H2H Frazier at his absolute best was better, I wouldn't be ultra confident he'd go through all 49 without losing one. He'd probably lose one.

 

Not sure was better. At there best, head to head, I think it could go either way, the lucky one walks out the winner imo. Its one of thsos 50 50 fights imo.

 

His fight against Ali took a lot out of him, Marciano never had to fight Ali.