{<Where is Evander Holyfield in ATG HW rankings?}>

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by catasyou, Dec 15, 2008.


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  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Shot? I think that's stronging it a bit, though he was definitely faded. But anyway or not, where do you draw the line?

    Yes, he challanged for the HW title, a challanger. I'm not trying to say that Wepner is a great scalp, just making the point that between 1954 and 1970 Liston was matched with contenders. He lost one when green (twice avenged) twice during his peak (to the greatest who ever lived in strange circumstances) and once when old. During his absolute prime he matched the best and only lost to Muhammad Ali.

    And Liston beat him in his last.

    Basically, I think it's ridiculous to have a guy like Dempsey above Liston, but how can ranking even Lewis above Liston be justified? Lewis lost twice during his peak too - to Rahman and McCall. Both were matched to similair levels, with their best wins - past peak Holyfield and prime Patterson - being there or thereabouts.
     
    McGrain, Dec 16, 2008
    McGrain, Dec 16, 2008
    #76
  2. catasyou

    catasyou Lucian Bute Full Member

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    After Toney he was pretty much shot,as shot as he can be cuz he is a fantastic athlete and probably even at 50 would give most contenders hell.He won't be completely shot even with Valuev altough he looked horrible with Ibragimov.He can't push the trigger anymore.
     
    catasyou, Dec 16, 2008
    catasyou, Dec 16, 2008
    #77
  3. konaman

    konaman Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Probably 15-20. The fact that he was a cruiserweight obviously bolsters his position somewhat, especially in a p4p sense, but as a heavyweight you can't give him too many browny points for his cruiserweight work (which seems to be why most people overrate him).

    He lost too many of his bigger fights: Moorer, Lewis, Bowe, later on Ruiz, Toney etc. Obviously he was on the decline for the best part of his heavyweight career, but that doesn't mean you can disregard his biggest losses.
     
    konaman, Dec 16, 2008
    konaman, Dec 16, 2008
    #78
  4. catasyou

    catasyou Lucian Bute Full Member

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    Everything is arguable here........I consider him shot at the point of the Toney fight,or at least Donald.
    Liston beat him in his last just cuz Liston died after that.He would have fought on.Agreed on Liston should be over Dempsey altough Dempsey was probably the mst exciting ever.The other is arguable.
     
    catasyou, Dec 16, 2008
    catasyou, Dec 16, 2008
    #79
  5. catasyou

    catasyou Lucian Bute Full Member

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    20 is too low definetely,you can't name 19 better than him.
     
    catasyou, Dec 16, 2008
    catasyou, Dec 16, 2008
    #80
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Well i'm not going to rate Liston on what might have happened if he hadn't died. I rank him on his body of work between the beggining of his career and the end.
     
    McGrain, Dec 16, 2008
    McGrain, Dec 16, 2008
    #81
  7. catasyou

    catasyou Lucian Bute Full Member

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    That's what I meant too.
     
    catasyou, Dec 16, 2008
    catasyou, Dec 16, 2008
    #82
  8. Ikketurner

    Ikketurner Member Full Member

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    I rank Holyfield number 1 probably because I am a fan of his....

    But to be real, here's how I would rank the heavies:

    Lewis
    Holyfield
    Ali
    Foreman
    Tyson
    Norton
    Bowe

    If Holyfield would have beaten Lewis then I would have given the number 1 slot to him but since he lost, Lewis gets number 1. I give Holyfield credit because he stepped up and fought all the best heavy weights of his era... His level of competition alone qualifies him for top 5. Lewis (x2), Tyson (x2), Bowe (x3), Foreman, Holmes, Moorer (x2), Mercer, Rahman, etc... this man has fought some good fighters.
     
    Ikketurner, Dec 16, 2008
    Ikketurner, Dec 16, 2008
    #83
  9. catasyou

    catasyou Lucian Bute Full Member

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    I'm the biggest Holyfield fan but that list is just awful.....where are Frazier,Jeffries.Wills,Liston,Johnson,Dempsey,Marciano,Fitzsimmons and most importantly the best ever probably Joe Louis?What the hell are Tyson,Bowe and Norton doing there?Why not put Golota in there too?
     
    catasyou, Dec 16, 2008
    catasyou, Dec 16, 2008
    #84
  10. Ikketurner

    Ikketurner Member Full Member

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    I've never seen Dempsey, Marciano, Fitzsimmons, Joe Louis, Jeffries (who ever he is) fight. And Liston? LOL... please
     
    Ikketurner, Dec 16, 2008
    Ikketurner, Dec 16, 2008
    #85
  11. catasyou

    catasyou Lucian Bute Full Member

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    You can't have Bowe over Liston no way possible.
     
    catasyou, Dec 16, 2008
    catasyou, Dec 16, 2008
    #86
  12. MAG1965

    MAG1965 Loyal Member banned

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    no Pinklon Thomas?
     
    MAG1965, Dec 16, 2008
    MAG1965, Dec 16, 2008
    #87
  13. catasyou

    catasyou Lucian Bute Full Member

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    No:bart
     
    catasyou, Dec 17, 2008
    catasyou, Dec 17, 2008
    #88
  14. catasyou

    catasyou Lucian Bute Full Member

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    :bump
     
    catasyou, Dec 17, 2008
    catasyou, Dec 17, 2008
    #89
  15. Brighton bomber

    Brighton bomber Loyal Member Full Member

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    Ali
    Louis
    Johnson
    Holmes
    Lewis
    Foreman
    Holyfield
    Liston
    Frazier
    Tyson
     
    Brighton bomber, Dec 17, 2008
    Brighton bomber, Dec 17, 2008
    #90
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