Why did classic boxing skills die?

You can't just say "trainers have got worse" and leave it at that. There has to be some reason why they've got worse. Looking at the more technology a trainer has, you'd have to assume that the standard of trainers is better than it ever has been. Aside from new machines and things of that nature to improve a fighters physical attributes, modern trainers such as Freddy Roach have 100 years of video, newspaper reports, books and so on, at their fingertips. Given these advantages, what logical reason could ther be behind trainers getting worse?

I'm not saying it's impossible. It could be the case that not one modern trainer has the eye for boxing, like they had in the past. I do think that if there's an argument to be made, it will be that modern trainers are now better.

Maybe these techniques wouldn't work in boxing today? You mention body punching, which is interesting. Boxers are now wearing larger gloves, have higher trunks and a thicker cup than before. All this means that body punching will obviously be harder to perfect. Look at someone like Bob Fitzsimmons who specifically targetted one part of the body. This couldn't happen now. The equipment the fighters use dictates the style they fight in, which, as I've said before, is why a boxer like Winky could not compete in the late 1800's using his style.

Besides all that, if these techniques would work in the modern era, why wouldn't the fighters be taught how to do them? It doesn't make any sense.

 

I agree with a lot here and sadly fighters aren't as active today as in the past. But being rushed into title fights might also have a lot to do with there being four belts instead of one. If there was just one belt today then most guys who get title shots woulnd't get one and if there were four belts in the past then a lot of guys would have gotten their shots much quicker.

 

This post brought up a lot of interesting points. I enjoyed reading it.

 

None of the four skills have been lost. I'm not sure what you're talking about here.

 

Ever heard of George 'Elbows' McFadden?

 

As a sample, extracts from a report of one of McFadden's fights with Gans:


Here was Gans, conditioned to the minute and demonstrating with every move his great cleverness and wonderful ring generalship; there McFadden, showing probably a bit stronger despite the short notice given him to prepare for a contest. He lost none of his reputation for being the "Prince of Blockers."

Many a blow did Gans shoot across that were if not for that wonderful guard would have laid the New Yorker down for the doleful count of ten.

Out shot Gans's well-known left jab, but McFadden was there with his usual block. Gans tried the same blow many times, but penetration of that guard might be likened to a rifle-ball trying to tear its way through a fort's wall. He could do nothing, and McFadden, by way of a reminder to Gans that he was in the fight, shot a right-hander into the colored man's stomach. It had the force of a sixty-mile gale behind it, and Gans uttered his disappointment with a grunt. It was a mix-up to the gong and both going easy.

Then came the second round. Gans tried something new--a right-hand hook. It was as effective as his left jab, McFadden was there to ward the blows off, and he did, at the same time shooting a few across to the colored man's face occasionally.


Doesn't sound similar to recent Winky's fights?

 

Few would want to slip a shot and counter to the body while the head is wide open unless up against a serious height disadvantage. Its simply not the best counter shot

Any punch can be countered if you counter quick enough. Even when you've just slipped a shot you can be countered

Now on bodyshots, less chance on being countered if your leaning on your mans chance, unless he can get his uppercut off

 

I don't see any lack of skill in today's boxing. Sure, Valujev is hardly a slickster, but considering his huge size he isn't all that bad. I don't think there have been many more skilled boxers than for example Hopkins and Mayweather. Toney is another very skilled guy, but not terribly fit though. And there's probably more coming through.

If you look at the best over the last 25-30 years you have guys like Leonard, Benitez, Hearns, Hagler, Duran, Whitaker, de la Hoya, Chavez etc and also pretty skilled big guys in Holyfield, Tyson, Bowe, Lewis and Wlad. That doesn't look bad at all to me.

 

Its like any profession. How can someone learn all the tricks of the trade if they only apply them once, or twice a year? You can't. How can someone expect to be the best cook, the best surgeon, if they only use their skills semi annually. Fighters of the past learned all these skills because they fought more often against all types of styles. Even when they didnt have regular fights, they were fighting exhibitions. They were always using, or being forced to continually learn and apply these skills-it became second nature.

In the past, fighters could only make money by fighting, there really wasn't any other outlet. Today, fighters can make additional money outside of the ring, which is good for them, but not necessarily us the fans. That's why when I hear that todays fighters are better fighters than those of the past, I don't buy it. Boxers today may be stronger, faster, whatever you want to say, but boxers of yesterday were better fighters because they learned all skills and fought more often. You can have the best equipment in the world, but if you don't use it, you won't be better than the person who has primitive equipment but uses it on a daily basis.

 

In Mexico it's taught the day after little boys learn to walk.

 

Again, not necessarily. What's easier to move -your head or your body? The answer explains why elusive fighters are often countered to the body by guys who know what they are doing and who understand investment.

Wrong. If you are not in position to throw a punch, for example after the guy counters your right cross by stepping inside and at an angle and lands a left hook to your ribs, you can't counter that. You're not in a position to throw a damn thing. You have to reposition first. You may even have a tough time repositioning because those shots hurt.

I think it's time for you to consider the mechanics of the examples I gave you. There's no way that an uppercut can be thrown effectively when the guy just slipped your shot and is at one side under your extended arm. You can try to throw one, but only if you want to be ridiculously off balance and open to a monster counter or three.

 

There is a counter for EVERY PUNCH THROWN.