Who beats Ali? No hedging your bets, who do YOU pick to straight up beat him?

Which of Ali's 60s opponents did he dismantle in their prime then? Only Terrell, Chuvalo and Mildenberger were near or at peak when he beat them. Hardly The Holy Trinity of heavweight boxing is it?

 

One thing that nobody has considered yet is the posibility that there might be another Ken Norton in a diferent era.

I mean there might be a fighter who never quite got to the top in his own day, who on paper is not worthy to lace up Ali's gloved, but has the style and tools to beat him. But of course nobody would have twigged because this fighter fought in a diferent era.

 

Very true. Would be interesting to hear some suggestions. I can't come to think of someone at the top of my head. I think Spinks might cause Ali some trouble, but it would be wrong to say that he wouldn't be "worthy of lacing up Ali's gloves on paper". He doesn't fit that criteria, but he's not as great a HW as others who have been mentioned concerning this.

 

By the way, did you have information about his ranking in 1966?

 

Yes mate. Ranked 5th in Ring and 6th with Boxing Illustrated.

 

Ok. Thanks :good

 

By comparing Lewis with Tyrell you are just exposing holes in your argument and showing how utterly blinkered your opinion is. You could never compare Lewis with Tyrell.

By the way I'd also pick Bowe (in shape & focused) and Holyfield to beat 60s Ali.

 

Bowe? Based on one great performance.

 

I like Evander on this one as well. Peak, before and at the time of the Douglas fight.

 

Come-forward punchers were Ali's specialty, too. A more passive counterpuncher could throw a wrench into Ali's rhythm.

Norton was successful by blocking Ali's jab and countering. I believe Johnson was faster than Norton and could do this successfully, too.

Part of Ali's arsenal was the clinch. Johnson was strong enough to neutralize Ali in-close and was an expert at scoring points therein.

Ali was not at his best on the front foot, as can be seen against a mostly harmless punching bag in Terrell. Contrast that to Ali's dazzling work against the lunging Williams. Johnson was too smart to simply be countered to death. He could make Ali come to him and pick his spots to score.

The mental aspect and mind games would count too: if any fighter could make Ali see red and not fall for the Lip's childlike trash, it would be the irrepressible Johnson. A gutter-talking, noncommittal, parrying, feinting, accurately-countering foe could be frustrating to Ali.

Johnson didn't simply lean back, flat-footed. On top of his gloved defense, he sprung back and forth with swiftness. I think he could figure out Ali's one-two attack and spring or dart back enough to avoid major damage while preparing swift counters on an Ali not exactly always in proper position to block.

Lil' Arthur had a great left jab. He was not extremely busy with it against his limited foes because he didn't have to be. In these imaginary scenarios, I believe the ability to adapt to the opponent is crucial and of course must be kept within reason: it would be ludicrous to envision Mike Tyson dancing to victory over another all-time great if he never showed this ability. But on film I see Johnson with the technique and endurance to up the ante and cut down Ali's rhythm with a solid left. It is not easy, but in my experience patient viewing will reveal more about Johnson's proficiency than meets a first glance.

I remember around 1986 a pensive Ali on Mexican TV saying Jack Johnson was the greatest of the heavyweights. "Better than you?", quickly came the next question. We all know what Ali answered to that, but Ali obviously respected Johnson.

Larry Holmes said at "Dinner with the Champs" that he could beat Louis, Marciano, Frazier and Ali, and that the only one he would have trouble with was...Jack Johnson.

I'm old enough to remember commentators who had actually seen Johnson and considered him one of the very best. It is our loss if we disregard these opinions but take too much to heart those of youthful Internet warriors who together will never know as much as the Giant had forgotten by the time of his untimely car wreck.

I actually pick Ali over Johnson, but this is a no-bets-hedged thread and my choice of Ali would be by a just a couple of whiskers.

 

Not based on one performance, based on his size, power and hand speed. Bowe had all the tools. Just 1 defeat.

 

Having e tools is one thing.

Using them efectivley is quite another.

I have all the tools to be a master sculptor but I am not.

 

He did use them effectively. Hence 1 defeat. But I concede he should have done more in his career.

 

I would go further and say that he left a lot of questions unanswered.

That alone is enough for me to think my money is safer on Ali.

 

Mike tyson.

All day. Every day.