Holyfield vs Valuev - The aftermath

I didn't say it damages Holyfield in the least, now did I?

If he offically won it it would have done him a lot of good. As it is now, outside of the fans who actually care it's a loss. People definitely don't give Jimmy Young the benefit of the doubt 30 years on.

 

I won't say that Foreman's plan was any better than Holyfield's, afterall he was losing in one sided fashion for almost a full 9 rounds before dropping Moorer in the tenth. I agree with you however, that Foreman's win over Moorer was by far a greater victory, because as you say, he was fighting a much livlier opponent who was seriously trying to kick his ass, and who had genuine accomplishements and abilities as a fighter.

 

Yes, it was a loss, regardless of how I scored the fight. Nothing changes that....

Had he gotten the decision, it would have been a great way to leave boxing and might even have helped his all time status, but probably a very little margin.

 

I'll keep my message simple :

THE CURRENT HEAVYWEIGHTS ARE ****.

I've been saying it for ages, and I have no time for the imbeciles who believe there are heavyweights around today who are on a par with the top big men of good heavyweight eras.

People say the division needs a new burst of energy in the shape of something like a prime Tyson, or an Ali, or a prime Holyfield.
Hell, I'd settle for the second-coming of Carl "The Truth" Williams !

That's how bad things have got.

To make matters worse, the only two guys out there who are well-conditioned and capable of fighting a smart fight and aren't totally shot are the two guys who wont ever fight each other !
And the Klitschkos - who I find boring to watch most of the time - are probably being totally flattered by the absolutely dire level of competition put in front of them.

Most of the heavyweight contenders around today wouldn't even be considered good journeymen back in the day.

 

As harsh as you made it out to be, I have to second this.

If we look at the heavyweight picture of the early 90's, we see

Tyson
Holyfield
Bowe
Lewis
Ruddock
Foreman
Witherspoon
Mercer
Moorer
Douglas

Frankly, I see very little room for even some of the best of today's heavy's except for the Klitschko bros who might fall in somewhere around mid-list. Fighters like Valuev, Peter, Maskaev, Chagaev, etc are not even top 15 heavys in that era.

 

I look at Sam Peter and consider him something like a less polished and slower version of a Gary Mason.
And Mason was no one in his day.

 

I agree, Chuck Wepner would've reigned surpreme today, undisputed.

In fact, WHERE IS CHUCK?? Maybe he can launch a comeback...

 

I think he enhanced his legacy a bit. In my opinion it was a win. While Valuev looked worse than he ever did, Holyfield did what he could and should've gotten the win.

 

All sarcasm asside,

as untalented as Chuck Wepner was, at least the man fought with heart. That's one thing that no one can take away from him. These guys have it all. Big bodies, quality trainers, well managed Amateur and professional careers, and cutting edge training facilities. Yet, look at the level of effort they put forth. Remember Evander Holyfield's trilogy with Riddick Bowe? Christ, when was the last time anyone saw a series of fights like that? Sorry, but Valuev vs Ruiz 1 & 2, don't quite cut it for me, and neither does most of what the Klitschko's have done lately.

 

I don't buy that the talent is not here, only that you can't appraise talent until it has been displayed against nearly equal talent. The fact is that King, Arum and the old school of management and promotion has destroyed the division. There needs to be new blood at the top. The talent is there and more talent would be attracted were the sport more believable, less corrupt and safety-first. Perhaps, also, fans should not consider a HW shot or a bust after one or more losses. Then perhaps the up-and-comers and the champs would not be so protected.

Almost every decade has its detractors (I personally think the 70's are way, way overrated). Right now I see good talent at the top (I do not consider Valuev at the top) and potential on the way up. But there needs to be MORE FIGHTS MORE OFTEN among the elite, Povetkin, Chagaev, the Bros. K, Haye, Peter, any of the youngsters from the US or UK. Instead, we too often get retreads with connections getting shots and in the latest case a circus freak with very limited ability.

 

WEPNER WAS A NICE GUY AND TRIED TO WIN VS ALI BUT HE WAS A HORIBLE FIGHTER,i had to endure a few of his fights, he was slow,could not punch but was a tough hang in there guy...im afraid if he fought the klitscko's he would not only bleed but hit the deck and i can hardly see Evangelista or any of the contenders minus Foreman,Frazier,and Ali holding a title down today....Quarry would be somewhat compettive but not against the Klitscho's

 

I agree with what you say, but I also think you're missing the point.

For all of their athletic ability, most of today's top raters just don't cut it in the heart department. Sure, I'd pick the Klits to beat Quarry, Wepner, Shavers and perhaps even Lyle and Norton. But, who would you rather pay to see fight, the Klits or those other guys? Heavyweight boxing sucks right now. Roughly 9 out of every 10 fights are borderline unwatchable. Evander Holyfield out foxing Valuev the other night, was a faint cry from the past, and a reminder of the days when boxing was boxing.

 

There is some irony in that, considering Holyfield did exactly the opposite of the slugfests he used to represent, to beat Valuev for a "reminder of when boxing was boxing".

 

I don't care if he used a Russian AK-47 to obliterate Valuev. The fact is, he fought a better fight despite being 46 years of age and not having fought in over a year. Additionally, he showed more heart and effort which incidently is the hallmark of Holyfield.

 

I think we really ought to look at Valuev as a fighter in steep decline from a low precipice. He does not look right physically when comparing him to previous fights.

And Magoo, I disagree in one part in regards to Moorer-Foreman. Look back to the 7th on and you see George shaking Moorer with thudding jabs. It was hardly a one-punch KO. He waited on Moorer to get tired and sloppy and needled his way in. Power took care of the rest as Moorer was beaten up at the end.