Lennox Lewis vs Mike Tyson, prime for prime, who wins?

Typical revisionist history, making things sound completely different than they were in REALITY.

Tua was seen as the next Tyson, was knocking guys out rapidly, put Ruiz out cold in 17 seconds and his only close fight was against Ibeabuchi, which many had him winning. Many people thought his powerful left hook hook would lay Lewis out because remember, the man has a glass jaw. What happens?
The Brit puts on a boxing clinic and makes Tua look like a fool by staying off the ropes for the entire 12 rounds. And now people look back and say "well Tua was no threat anyway". atsch

Often the same bull**** with Ruddock, who most picked to knock Lennox out (Bowe included, and we know what he thought after the fight), or people saying "well Golota was always frail", bull****, everyone picked him over Lewis when they fought after he thoroughly thrashed Bowe twice. Lewis took a dangerous high risk low reward fight, and after he destroyed him, there's always fools who say "Golota was nothing". Same with the Tyson fight by the way, where the odds were as good as even.


That goes for some people anyway, where he can't do anything right. He loses a close fight in a determination-showing war against an iron chinned fighter? Well his opponent was a bum and he should've closed the show. He blows a highly regarded fighter out of the water? Well that just shows how pathetic his opponent was, glass jaw, etc, worthless win. Avenge a loss conclusively? Who cares, he should've won the first time, bla bla bla. Some people have no idea how hard it is to get back in the ring with someone who hurt you and humiliated you in front of millions.



And then there's the usual easy opponent bashing, always amusing. You can make Ali look a journeyman with that kind of analysis. Asif the likes of Tucker, heavyweight Spinks, Tubbs and Berbick is the stuff of legends.


As for hearing from a Tyson supporter that Lewis never got up from the canvas to win and question his heart....

 

I think it's ridiculous when it's made out that Lewis was a fighter that never took chances, who fed on the scraps of washed up contenders and hasbeens. If one takes the time to closely examine Lewis's record you'll see a fighter who took several big risks.

Consider his 15th fight, when he took on Gary Mason. I bet a lot of people on this forum don't really know much about Mason but a quick look on Boxrec will give you some of the barebones. This was a man who stopped 34 out of 37 opponents, was hugely strong and was unbeaten when Lewis took the fight. Many observers in the UK thought that Lewis was not ready for Mason. And indeed it was fight in which Mason had his moments and was only stopped due to an eye injury. If had not been for a detached retina that ended his career, you'd have heard a lot more about Mason.

Then there was the fight with Razor Ruddock, who at the time that Lewis fought him was one of the most feared and dangerous heavyweights on the planet. Many did not expect Lewis to get past Ruddock; i think it's safe to say that Riddick Bowe was one of those. Surely this was a crazy fight for a 'safety first, glass-jawed' fighter to take but Lewis destroyed Ruddock where Tyson couldn't.

And then there's Golota, who before Lewis faced him was once again, one of the most feared and dangerous heavyweights in the world. he gave Bowe a hiding in their 2 fights and the fact he got DQ'd probably made him even more of a risk, in a sense. What happened was that Lewis destroyed him. Of course, after the fight all the excuses started to flow about Golota, that he was panicked and on drugs but nonetheless when Lewis faced him he had just given Bowe more than he could handle. Lewis, with his 'glass jaw', was perceived to be in for a difficult night's work.

So don't give me this bull**** that Lewis never took risks. If in some fights he didn't take as big as risk as he could afford, that's simply down to the fact that the man had more than one way to win a fight. It doesn't mean that he'd have beaten a prime Tyson although I believe he would have.

 

Mason was so slow. He even made Bruno look quick.

 

Fine posts from both Doppleganger and Chris Pontius.

I will also ad that as an avid viewer of the sport during the early 90's, Razor Ruddock was expected by most to be the next heavyweight champion in Tyson's abscence. There were many who even favored him over the current undefeated titlist Evander Hoyfield. Looking back, he was in fantastic physical shape going into the Lewis fight, and had beaten some respectable opponents following the Tyson losses including 24-0 Phil Jackson. I never buy this nonsense that the Tyson fights ruined Ruddock. Lewis legitmately conquered a genuine contender and threat to the title.

.......End of story.......

 

How could one (espeshly one named Lewis) impress you?

Tell me again what losses Tyson avenged?

:!:

 

I think he was a better fighter than Sam Peter though, and Mason was nobody in his day, so that basically says something about today's heavys.

 

:yep

 

Speaking as someone that saw Mason fight a few times - not just the Lewis fight - the best comparison I can make is for someone to imagine Matt Skelton with a bigger punch and better fundamentals.

This was the 227 pound, 25 year old version of Lewis and it was a clear step up in class for him. Mason was in the top 5 of both the WBA and WBC, and had been ranked by The Ring at the end of 1989. A solid tree stump of a man.

It's one of the few fights where Lewis was the underdog...Mason was 6-4 on.
It was felt as just way too early for Lewis.

That fight was a risk. Taking risks and overcoming them is what makes fighters better.
Too many want to back their way into title shots with careful matchmaking and hype.
At some point, you've just got to bite the bullet and take on someone dangerous.

 

This thread's topic is well-tread, but it turned out to be a good one anyway.

Some of the arguments posed by others against Lennox Lewis sound familiar. I can't join the chorus because many solid posters across the pond have convinced me to soften the severity with which I once criticized Lennox. I now rank him very high in terms of HW greatness and H2H.

That being said, this fight would progress in 2 general ways.

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Round 1 of Lewis-Tyson saw Tyson missing by inches. Manny Steward had every reason to be a nervous wreck between rounds. He knew that Tyson's shots were dangerous to Lewis's chin. And that fight took place when Tyson was merely looking to plant one bomb that was often neither short, nor thrown with maximum leverage. Tyson also faded early by that point. The 1988 version, by contrast, was designed to deal with larger men with longer arms. He was designed to close the distance and throw series of short combinations explosively and with an eye on placing them down and up. He could remain explosive for about 8 rounds. He was technically near perfect for a man with his physical disadvantages. Lewis always had windows. He is a physical fighter who puts his great size and power to good use... but he leaves windows open. I could see a 21 year old Tyson landing hurtful shots early and closing Lewis down after Lewis makes a technical mistake, like dropping his hands or being off balance.

Tyson's efficiency and explosiveness could spell T-I-M-B-E-R.

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The Lewis who fought Ruddock was neither heavy nor strong enough to beat a prime Tyson. The older version would be. The older version took on some qualities of Foreman who could be counted on to destroy Tyson (I've never once heard a different argument that was convincing). Lewis, if he strapes Tyson from the right distance with straight shots and takes a page out of Holyfield and clinches in close and moves him backwards, has a better than good chance. The older Lewis is stronger than Holyfield and could do this. He is not as technically sound as Holyfield and that is concerning (windows!), but he may execute the right gameplan with Manny in his corner.

If I were a technical advisor I'd emphasize the psychology of the fight far more than technique. During the press conferences Lennox should say nothing. I'd instruct him to... stand at the podium and ignore every question. Turn your head and stare at Tyson for a full minute and then sit down. (Lennox would be standing and Tyson will be sitting which suggests dominance.) When Tyson is at the podium, be sure that someone large is blocking his access to you because he may try to even out your advantage by getting stupid. Look blankly straight ahead and think about Christmas. Do not respond in any way to his empty words. At the pre-fight instructions mid-ring, stare right into his eyes. Say something short like: "I know the truth about you, Michael." I'd lay odds on favor that Tyson will not return the stare for more than 3 seconds.

Tyson doesn't like to get hurt and is not very tolerant of pain. So, make it a physical fight -use your strength and rough him up. Show him no respect. Hit him low a few times to take his attention off of what he is doing and distract him by what you are doing above and below the belt. Rabbit punch him in clinches. Make him mad because soon enough his fear will seep through... and then he's yours.

Most trainers in this hypotheticals would probably tell Lewis to go out there rough and land a big one as soon as possible. To hell with that. There's too much risk there. Hell, Holyfield did that and Tyson cracked him good in the first 2 seconds of their first fight. Lewis cannot afford to get hurt or stunned because a confident Tyson is very, very dangerous. I'd advise him to step out and begin with hard jabs from a distance -at Tyson's forehead and chest. The moment Tyson either is off balance or misses a right cross -or that jab to the forehead happens to lift Tyson's head up, Lewis should crack him hard with a right. Cautious aggression until about round 6 when Tyson's physical powers and energy begins to wane -that's the way to go.

 

brilliant summary especially phycologically

 

Old Stonehands, huh. A man who demands and commands respect around these shores. You'll learn more from reading his pieces on here than you'll ever do from any books currently available.


ESB's very own, Hank Kaplan.

 

hes a very knowledgeable guy from the posts i ahve read

 

Good analysis, Stonehands.

Everytime I watch Tyson-Douglas I'm struck by just how Douglas's lack of respect seemed to confuse Tyson. He continued punching after clinches was initiated, instead of just hanging on, and almost manhandled Tyson at times. Even punched after "break" on occassions. That combined with a good fight plan in general was really the way to confront him.

 

tyson

 

Absolutely. And your statement "combined with a good fight plan" is key. Ruddock wasn't intimidated... and Holmes sure as hell wasn't either. But their fight plans weren't so spiffy. You need both... actually you need firepower to back it all up and that may be most important.