Marquez: "Objectively, I Can Honestly Say Hamed Shouldn't Be In The Hall Of Fame"

I think Hamed's best weight was 126, and Pacquiao is the more complete fighter at 130. I think Pac gets hit more at 126, and his punch resistance isn't phenomenally good at 130, so it would only detract as the weight detracts. Just to clarify, I'm not pointing at Pacquiao having chin issues, but if Marquez hurts him at 130, I think Hamed hurts him worse at 126, but only if he manages to weather an early storm from Pacman.

I think Hamed has more than a punchers change, I think he has the potential to outbox the sluggish Pacquiao. He was terribly predictable with his one-two in the Marquez fight, and after the first 2 rounds, Dinamita caught on to this and avoided Manny's money shot for the remainder of the fight, getting off counters of his own. That would be the version of Manny fighting Hamed. By the same token, Hamed was not the Boxer JMM was, but he did carry some decent hand speed.

I'm looking at more 60/40 for Pacquiao at 126.

 

yes. i take the same stance on hamed-morales too. i have erik's career on dvd at home, and although he was a very capable of boxer he was very prone to brawling and getting hit.

 

I just don't envision Erik Morales near his prime getting stopped by anybody, even by somebody as hard-hitting as The Prince. Brawling was Morales' bread and butter, but he could Box if he wanted too, and like he did in the first Pacquiao fight, he made a balance of the two. He would box at times, and then he would mix it up by throwing in the intensity we're so used to when watching Morales fight. This caused problems for Pacquiao, and I could see it causing more problems for Hamed, who's footwork was pretty dreadful.

Pacquiao on the other hand, didn't really show some significant Boxing ability until he improved as a Super Featherweight. I think the version that fought Barrera is powerful but wreckless, and like I've said before, I could see Morales taking Naz's best shots but perhaps not Pacquiao, who started out at 105 ultimately.

Perhaps I'm favouring Morales unfairly, but If there's a few fighters I never see getting knocked out in their prime it's Hopkins, Sweet Pea, and Morales.

 

This would make a good poll question if it hasnt been done already. I agree with JMM 100% btw.

 

I agree that The Prince should not be inducted into the Hall Of Fame, but the reasons he gives are a little self-deluded.

The reason Naz should not be inducted is not because he didn't fight Marquez, but because when he did fight the best (and he did), he came up short. This would all be water under the bridge if he came back and avenged his defeats, like Barrera did at least three times during his long prestigious career, but he didn't. He lost handily to the best fighter he ever faced, fought one more fight, and then faded into obscurity only to hit the headlines when getting in trouble with the Law. It doesn't cut it.

 

so i am right that you feel that hamed is capable of doing what JMM did to pacquiao at 126. i don't agree, that is why i only pick hamed as the winner if he will catch pacman with his bomb and finish him thus giving him this chance. you pegged it at 40-60 hamed including the chance that he would outbox pacquiao. this is good enough for me but i just can't envision hamed doing another marquez on pac.

actually, if you will look at morales, he did show how to defeat that version of pac though it was in 130 already. establish your long jab and back him up. i don't know if hamed can do that either coz jab is almost not in hamed's book.

 

Marquez sounds like a smart man. By the way, **** no Hamed should NOT be in the HOF.

 

I actually said that Naz was never the technician that Marquez has proved to be recently, but I think just saying he has a punchers change is selling his talent short. The Prince was not just this sluggish brawler who would often land a big bomb and end the fight. He had some movement, he had reflexes, and he looked really good when throwing his shots. Not much of a combination puncher, but he found the angles, and Pacquiao showed he was suspectable to the straight right in both fights with Marquez, more so in their first meeting.

I can see Naz counter punchering the version of Pacquiao that met both Barrera and Marquez, but not to the extent of putting on a clinic, which is what I think Marquez achieved at 126.

This is actually one of the reasons I don't think Pacquiao ever met the best version of Barrera. Marco got complacent after his wins over Tapia and Kelley, and although I don't like excuses, the snap wasn't in Barrera's punches as it has been previously. The point however is that the Barrera of Sanchez, Salud, and pretty much every fight that followed, had one of the best jabs in the game. It was quick, straight, and powerful. It set-up his 3-4 combination's that were sublime, but I don't remember seeing that in the Pacquiao fight. Maybe Pacquiao was a little to awkward.

 

hamed's awkward stance and looping shots would be exploited by pac's straighter punches. his timing is good but only for boxers with lesser speed than him. in pacquiao, he will find a fighter with the same speed (arguably faster) and he would have a hard time landing that shots repeatedly to resemble a "schooling" that you mentioned. only marquez' straight counter right have effectively neutralize pac's aggressive come forward style at that weight.

same as my reason above but this boxing clinic is not as worst as others are implying. i agree that jmm put on a clinic during rounds 3~6 but from rounds 7~12, pac have started to fight back and gotten some rounds back.

barrera was trying to set up this same jabs in the early goings but was dazed and confused by pac's speed and power. much like the oscar fight where oscar did try to establish his jab early but pac is nowhere to be found in front of him and is too elusive for oscar. styles makes fights and what is effective for other fighters would not be necessarily effective against pac.

 

Hamed in the HOF????? :rofl :rofl :rofl

On the basis of what?? His ridiculous ring entrances?? Losing to Barrera?

The HOF standards are low, but I surely hope they don't drop THIS low.

 

You make some good points, but I don't want to pretend the reason Pacquiao beat De La Hoya was because of his speed. He won the fight because Hoya couldn't make Welterweight legitimately anymore, and putting his body through that ordeal with him already being a professional for well over a decade just added insult to injury. I'm sure you're of the opinion that Pacquiao deserves full credit for the win, but I didn't even know it was Oscar that night, and he's been in with more dangerous Welterweights than Pacman prior.

I thought that Marquez dominated Pacquiao after the initial two rounds of the fight. I had him winning the fight, and I've watched it about 3-4 times now. I think I'm due to watch it again very soon though, and I'll make sure I get you back the scorecard. :good An entertaining fight, indeed.

As for Barrera's jab being ineffective against Pacquiao but affective with Morales, perhaps that was just Manny's change in style. I think the Pacquiao at 126 was a lot more unpredictable and relentless than the one that started to emerge under Roach's guidance. Although being a more versatile fighter after pacquiao/Marquez I, it perhaps worked against him when he met Morales, who could time Pacquiao easier than Barrera could.

 

As an entertainer, Hamed is topnotch! i think he will be inducted in the HOF tho, this awards are not given based solely on a fighters resume. You can be included based on what you have done for the sport. And i think Hamed entertained us well.

 

Hamed is a lock for the HOF. 100%

 

Reasons being?

 

His ring entrances should be in the hall of fame. Hamed himself? not so much...