My Scorecard - Pacquiao/Marquez 2

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by jaycuban, Dec 27, 2008.

  1. HyperBone

    HyperBone Silverback Gorilla Full Member

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    yup.. the thread will increase but it won't solve anything
     
  2. carias

    carias Active Member Full Member

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  3. divac

    divac Loyal Member Full Member

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    JMM's right leg is completely bent in a squat like position, and it is that leg that keeps him from going down, and eventually springs him up.

    I'll repeat, JMM was not HANGING OVER THE ROPES!
     
  4. divac

    divac Loyal Member Full Member

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    You know your boxing history Scientist.......
    ......have you've ever seen a ref call a knockdown in an event such as that of JMM's arm and glove touching the ropes while he's in a squat, but nothing but his feet are touching the canvas?

    In my near 29 years of following this sport, I've never seen it!

    I've seen a man's whole body crash onto the ropes and have the ref call a KD......and a fighter fully grab the ropes, seeing the ropes fully bend as he pulls himself up from going down (Cooney-Holmes).........but I've never seen anything like the gif shown here called a KD.

    You are wrong Scientist to not complain if that would have been called a knockdown.......knockdowns should be called when its obvious that a fighter grabbing it saved him from a fall.......those are easy to call, they're not even judgement calls.......a fighter grabs the ropes as Cooney did vs Holmes, and the full weight of his body in on the bend of those ropes.
    .....its an easy and obvious call, and I'm quite frankly disapointed that a boxing history type of guy like yourself would'nt be dissapointed from having such a thing as what shown in that gif called a knockdown.:bart:twisted::fire
     
  5. divac

    divac Loyal Member Full Member

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    Its not a knockdown of course, but a ******* will always put that up to avoid having to discuss the fight itself.....like round 6 for example, a totally dominant round by JMM which had two of the judges giving it to Pacquiao!:patsch

    That round 6 cannot be mistaken for a Pac round, even a ******* will acknowleadge it!.......but the ******* will always remain silent at such dishonesty!:!:
     
  6. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I think in recent times referees have been more inclined to enforce rules about using the ropes to support oneself in the instance of a landed punch. The further back you look the more you see fighters using the ropes to support themselves and being allowed to get away with it.

    Where the ref has acted on it, it's usually been when the fighter using the ropes to support himself is fighting in the other fighter's backyard and they are keen to 'crucify' the said fighter, so to speak.

    Personally I think common sense should prevail but there's always going to be line calls. For instance, I'm not sure Toney would have gone down against Roy Jones if the ropes weren't there, but he did bang into the post and it looked more likely than not hat he was going down. Now if they didn't call that a knockdown I wouldn't have exactly said that was a terrible call, but that they did call it I'm happy to go with it and i think it was the right decision.

    The Marquez one was even more iffy still and I wouldn't have called it a KD myself, but there's no doubt about it the ropes WERE used to support him after Pac landed the punch.

    I think it would be good policy to make the call when the ref is convinced beyond reasonable doubt that a fighter was going down. As such, Marquez shouldn't have been called for a KD. I can see how some people think he was going to go down, but I would need a little more evidence myself before making the call.
     
  7. divac

    divac Loyal Member Full Member

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    Thats not a knockdown Scientist. There is no evidence that the ropes is what held Marquez' weight up.

    The weight of JMM is not being held up by those ropes and thats obvious.

    The Jones-Toney example you put out had Toney's whole body crash to the ropes. Toney crashed onto those ropes and his whole weight was on top of them.

    The last Rafael Marquez vs Israel Marquez had something similar to Toney vs Jones, Marquez fell back and he rested his weight on the ropes....that was called a knockdown, and I have no complaints about that.

    JMM vs Pac is totally different, Marquez' weight in not resting on those ropes, if you take a look, the ropes only bent slightly when his arm grazed them, there would have been alot more bend to those ropes had JMM been resting his weight on them.
     
  8. divac

    divac Loyal Member Full Member

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    I know that a ******* would rather not have reason enter a Pac-JMM thread, but sorry, I registered here because I enjoy debating boxing.

    I'd advise you to not waist your time and get out of this forum if boxing is not your thing!:yep
     
  9. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Balance is a delicate thing Vlade. Just because he wasn't crashing into the ropes doesn't mean he wouldn't have gone down. I think he grabbed the rope pretty early in the piece, and that COULD have balanced him before the full effects of his loss of balance took effect. To me it's inconclusive and thus I wouldn't have called it a KD, like I said.

    It's interesting that you have no probs with the Marquez-Vasquez knockdown. I seem to remember otherwise, but I could be mistaken. Does that mean that you scored the last round 10-7 (like I myself did) for Vasquez?
     
  10. harrison

    harrison feu-nrmf md 2005 Full Member

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    still crying??? how come jmm's feet were:

    This content is protected


    off balanced at the same time right gloves holding the rope?? look at the heel at GIF.



    :D;)

    must be he knew his ass was going to fall down thats why he had to hold that rope. very clear divac. stop being delusional. if you have a balance like that, you got to hold that rope to prevent your ass falling down. look at the gif again and the foot. :rofl i am trying to save you from stupidity. :yep

    after the right shot, feet off balance, weight falling down, held the rope for dear life, couldnt sustain holding, right side of extremity and butt rested on the rope, went squatting while still holding the rope.. very clear KD :rofl:rofl:rofl
     
  11. Marlboro

    Marlboro Member Full Member

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    I had it

    Round 1 - Pacquiao(10-9)
    Round 2 - Pacquiao (10-9)
    Round 3 - Pacquiao (10-8 )
    Round 4 - Pacquiao (10-9)
    Round 5 - Pacquiao (10-9)
    Round 6 - Pacquiao (10-9)
    Round 7 - Pacquiao (10-9)
    Round 8 - Pacquiao (10-9)
    Round 9 - Pacquiao (10-9)
    Round10 - Pacquiao (10-9)
    Round11 - Pacquiao (10-9)
    Round12 - Pacquiao (10-9)

    PACQUIAO!!! ALL THE WAY! :happy
     
  12. divac

    divac Loyal Member Full Member

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    The rulebooks dont state that if your arms or gloves touch the ropes then it will be deemed a knockdown.
    I think you're being petty now Scientist.
    In live time, not in slow motion as in that gif, the incident happened in a flash.......it surely did'nt look like anywhere close to a knockdown then, but because the gif shows that Marquez glove touches the ropes, the ******* scream foul, "it should have been a KD!"
    Obviously the rule for knockdowns was meant for such incidents like Cooney being knocked about near the ropes against Holmes and he visibly grabbing them as his whole weight rested on them to save from touching canvas.

    If what happened in that gif could be misconstrued for a knockdown, then I suggest the rulebooks be changed and re-written to say that any fighter who touches any part of the ropes with his gloves should be deemed knocked down and the referee should impose a count........
    ......exactly, ridiculous!

    Again Scientist, name me an incident where a mans weight was'nt being held by the ropes and it was called a knockdown.

    I've seen many instances through the years watching boxing just like JMM's on that gif, and not once did the ref stop to rule it a knockdown.
    I know you've seen such incidents yourself Scientist, and its why I have a problem with you not to complain if this incident had been called a knockdown.

    Nothing in the past has shown that it should have been called a knockdown.
    There is no precedence to have a ref have called it a knockdown.
     
  13. harrison

    harrison feu-nrmf md 2005 Full Member

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    ayos. :lol: welcome. :thumbsup
     
  14. divac

    divac Loyal Member Full Member

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    Not any worse than anyone else who had it for Pacquiao!:D;)
     
  15. Silvermags

    Silvermags Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Funny VIDEO indeed! You should have seen the face of JMM's face when he approach JMM after the fight..

    Like saying... HEY! Manuel YOU NEVER learn! Your ass kissed the canvass again!:lol::lol:

    ANYWAY, NOBODY can deny that JMM is lucky that when he was hit by PAC he was near the rope.

    JUST IMAGINE this.. IF HE WAS HIT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE RING and there will be NO ropes to hold on?!

    JMM you are lucky! NEXT time There will be NO LUCK and NO STUPID judges who will a scoring mistake!

    This PAC/Marquez thread is probably the 100th time is was posted.

    It's getting boring! :lol: