Lennox Lewis vs Mike Tyson, prime for prime, who wins?

Lewis, too big, too strong, not intimidated enough, to fast, too powerful for tyson,

 

Tyson by brutal KO.

 

ROFL I come to this site every 3 months and saw this thread and brought it up regardless of the age. It's been done a million times in my 5 years here but it never gets old.

 

Insightful post, that pretty much mirrors my thoughts.

 

Yet he quit about 2-3 times less than Tyson did.

Really? Funny how EVERYONE on the planet failed to notice a drop-off so drastic.

Tell that to Frank Bruno.

Except for the bodybuilder physique, he showed all the same bad habits now and again in his "prime" too. That would mean he either was never great to begin with, or you're just over-exagerrating the extent to which he had "declined" when he fought Holyfield.

You mean the way he was outboxed & backed up by Tillis and Douglas? At least he came right back and brutally KO'd these two guys.

Which explains why they picked him to beat Holyfield even easier than when the fight was made back in Tyson's "prime". :roll:

And after Douglas, he never came close to losing until the Holyfield fiasco. And after Holyfield, he never came close to losing until the Lewis fiasco.

Which proves what?

No, what's "for sure" is that he was totally outclassed and befuddled by a significantly lesser fighter than Lewis, and failed to finish him off even though Douglas has shown himself to be even less physically/mentally tough than Lewis.

Yes, the pattern is that Lewis proved he could perform better by decisively beating his opponents in rematches, while Tyson never did.

 

That's not giving Lewis much of a window.

Mike's 'prime' essentially ended with Douglas.



But that said, I think Lewis was all wrong for Mike at any point in his career.

Much of Mike's early success was predicated on intimidation, something to which Lewis would have been immune.


Lewis was suceptible to getting tagged with the big shot (McColl, Rahman) but not when focused and bringing his best game.

Technically better, tyson would NOT have slipped that Jab.


They had a common opponent within a year of each other, Razor Ruddock.

Mike went to a UD with him. Lewis took him out in two, despite having a lot fewer pro fights than Mike at that time.

Douglas beat a prime, if somewhat over-confidant Tyson.

Lewis would have beaten him worse.

 

So a prime motivated and conditioned Tyson goes out in 10 but a washed up fat version training with dope in Hawaii goes eight.despite throwing (landing) every powerpunch known to mankind at him.Despite all that he won the first round round against this mental superman named Lennox who was so confident and unimpressed that he went into full defense mode at the beginning of the fight against a imposter removed a decade and a half from his prime,........
.......every lemmie uppercut hits home but Mike just hits air..............sure a jab and clinch is all what you have to do to neutralize Tyson lol................him landing wicked bodyshots in there is of course completly impossible because Lewis is just "awesome" fast , in fact , he is so fast that ham and eggers and slow as molasses McCall/Rahman needed devine invention to land on him while Tyson speed makes Foreman look like the Matrix............Lewis connects on everything and Tyson on nothing............Lewis 's chin is granite and Mike does not like pain who wants to go home to mommy and cry..........If Lewis wanted to he could have been 100 and 0 and all what you have to beat Mike is look at him angry or fight back and he would run to the nearest Stonehand psycho evaluation to get repaired............

 

That's a good point. Is a Vitali rematch completely out of the question now?

 

Thanks to Tricks77 for the link to Tyson's medical evaluation.

I happen to believe that, when discussing great champions, the intimidation factor is minimal. Aside from the normal butterflies, once the bell rings both men will resort to what they do best: put nothing less than their awesome skills on the table.

It is easy to dismiss Tyson as a folder, but I strongly disagree. A bit of his beginnings bears retelling: as is well known, he overcame horrible childhood inner-city circumstances to become possibly the greatest athletic superstar of his time. That in itself to me speaks of admirable mental fortitude. How much easier do so many 'hood casualties find it to simply go with the flow of their deprived surroundings and lie down and die regarding dreams of a better future! With no family support system, a colossal disadvantage, young Mike put it together and developed his potential through nothing but a world-class performer's mentality and work ethic. Nothing else explains his victory over Berbick in winning the title, a unique exhibition that captured the world's imagination.

In the ring, Tyson was always at a disadvantage in height and reach. It takes sheer guts to constantly and successfully bring it to the bigger man all the way to the top of the division.

Tyson never showed intimidation while being beaten up by Douglas. That Round 8 uppercut was the mark of a champion at heart. I see that, despite the adverse circumstances and to the bitter end, in his mind Tyson never doubted he would win that fight.

All elite athletes like Tyson and Lewis think they are invincible, so to me the subject is moot. Golota, McCall, Cleveland Williams, Jack Sharkey, to me those are folders and chokers, who rightfully will never be discussed among the greatest champions of the ring.

As for the fight, I think Tyson has the skills to put Lewis to sleep. It is clear to me that when Lewis gets hit flush, not merely grazingly, he is in grave danger of getting knocked out then and there. And Tyson is an extremely sharp puncher. Besides, as a gargantuan man, Lewis is vulnerable to speed, which Tyson also has in great abundance with both hands. On the other hand, Lewis cannot hope for a one-punch knockout, as it takes tons of punishment to stop Tyson.

The first Tyson/Bruno fight could be illustrative: how the heavy-hitting Bruno rabbit punched Tyson about two dozen times that first round! On top of that, he landed a couple of stunning left hooks. Through it all, Tyson kept his composure and caught up with his also huge, also chin-challenged foe to close the show in the fifth. As he said later, "I knew I was the best fighter in the world."

I see Lewis similarly roughhousing Tyson around and landing his vaunted right and/or uppercut to wobble Tyson early, but, again, he will also catch blistering leather and that will spell his doom.

Tyson gets to Lewis before Lewis gets to Tyson.

If Lewis decides to play it safe, he will lose like that other huge technician in Tucker did.

The problem when facing a peak Tyson is, once you decide to fight, he knocks you out with the punch you never saw. And, if you decide to hang on for dear life and the final bell, he has the stamina to pound out a lopsided win over you on the cards.

You need a great jab, combinations, speed, movement, ring generalship and a great chin to beat Tyson. Lewis, for all his greatness, falls short.

 

Good, insightful post, Prime. I agree with pretty much everything you say here. I especially like how you referenced the first Bruno fight. That fight refutes just about everything Tyson detractors say about if you hurt Tyson he loses his composure and is finished. Bruno was, legitimately, the first man to stun and wobble Tyson. Bruno had excellent power, the fact that he was compared to a robot aside, and caught Tyson flush. His knees went and he staggered backwards. I think Bruno was so stunned he didn't even know what to do to finish him. Tyson kept his composure and ground out the next few rounds before finishing Bruno up against the ropes for the TKO.

I would disagree that Bruno had chin problems, though. He didn't like to clinch, even when hurt. Instead he would cover up and take a vicious beating until the referee stopped the fight - much like in the Lewis and Tyson fights that he lost. He was never truly 'knocked out'.

 

If you include recuperative powers in having a good chin, then Bruno's 'chin' was far from solid. Bruno was able to take a helluva shot without falling, but he was next to useless for any length of time afterwards. Look at the Jumbo Cummings fight when Bruno shipped a big right hand at the end of the 1st and was out on his feet. Lucky for him that the bell saved him or he'd have been stopped there and then. Anytime Bruno has shipped a really big punch he's been there for the taking.

I think Lewis had better recuperative powers than Bruno, by some margin. Lewis has taken big shots and hasn't frozen like Bruno has. I think anon1 said it well when he stated that you shouldn't bet on a one punch knock-out, from either fighter. Lewis's only one punch 'knockout' loss was against McCall and he got up and should have been allowed, as heavyweight champion of the world, to continue. The stoppage against Rahman was an accumulation of hard right hands.

If Tyson wins it will be via the application of combination punching, which he was brutally effective at in his prime. Lewis stood up to the shots of the slower, but probably harder single-shot punching of post prime Tyson. If prime Tyson is going to stop prime Lewis then one punch will not do it.

 

I don't agree. Lewis wasn't in any trouble whatsoever prior to taking Rahman's right hand. Obviously Rahman was landing some leather from the first bell until he caught Lewis near the ropes with the big overhand right, but not enough to take away the distinction of it being a 'one punch' knockout.

 

i dont know how anyone can confuse this slow moving counterfeit with the real Mike Tyson. Mike Tyson was a phenom on the way up, the most feared fighter on the planet and we should never forget that. Another Tyson victim by early KO.

 

It looked like to me that Lewis was hurt several times in the 5th round by the right hand. So in that respect I saw that as an accumulation of punishment rather than one big punch out of the blue.

 

I don't think you'll find many people agreeing with you on that. The accumulation of punishment Lewis was recieving was very minimal to say the least up until he got caught. As I previously stated, Rahman was obviously landing some blows throughout the fight. Getting briefly stunned by two or three right hands before getting decked with a massive blow is not accumulation IMO. If Lewis never took any punches at all during the 5th round prior to taking Rahman's booming overhand right, it would have made zero difference.

Just about every single knockout has some sort of accumulation, if you know what I mean. Lewis' right hand during the 4th round of the rematch I still consider a 'one punch' knockout. And IMO the punches Lewis was landing on Rahman during the rematch before knocking him out far exceed the damage done the other way before Rahman landed on Lewis in the first fight.