Would Sonny Liston rule the HW division now?

Obviously because most people are biased towards the fighters that they grew up on. That is the way it always has been.

 

Either that or....today's heavyweights suck! :yep

How many of today's HWs could go 15 rounds? People talk about today's better training techniques but few fighters today could go 15 rounds.

 

Sure, Liston is much better in quiting than WK.

 

Why did you not mention his height? :think

 

I don't think that is true. Fighter fight according to how long the fight is scheduled to go. They can simply reserve more energy if need be, fight at a slower pace. They would also be training for 15 rounds. Anyways, I think that people who actually believe that in the ENTIRE WORLD there just aren't any talented heavyweight boxers... are a little touched in the head. There is always loads of talent throughout the world. The only difference now is that they aren't stars... people aren't familiar with them like they were with fighters from the past. They aren't fighting on Network Television, and people in the states have a hard time relating to and supporting a bunch of guys from another country most of which they never have even seen fight. Talent, and the depth of the division isn't an issue. The issue is that the best Heavyweights are not from the states, are not marketed well... and people simply aren't informed. Just because they aren't a television star, doesn't mean they don't have talent.

Look how fast people jump on they hype trains of fighters like Dominick Guinn. Just dying for him to be the answer, and declaring him the "savior" of the division... the man had beat nobody. I was trying to tell everyone who would listen that he was nothing more than a slightly above average boxer who was EXTREMELY lazy in the ring. People called me a clown and was sure that Guinn was going to tear through the division like butter. I made a thread on here talking about how Monte Barrett would beat Guinn, and nearly got murdered through the internet.... and we saw what happened. It's obvious to me what is going on. People are desperate for American Champ, and if they don't have one... they think the division sucks.

 

Good post.

 

Willard was 37 years old, overweight, and had little boxing ability to begin with. Bearcat Wright and Arthur de Kuh weren't exactly the top of the cream either. I never argued that a great small man can't beat a mediocre big man.

As for Brewster being worse than Liston in any aspect: Brewster has a better chin and better heart. And it was exactly those which he beat Klitschko with.

And "Dejohn having a chin that makes Klitschko's look like a potato chip"? Yeah, i guess if we forget that instance when 3-2 Johnny Cousins knocked him out, when light hitting Machen knocked him out, as did Foley and Daniels.

 

Why on earth SHOULD they go 15 rounds??? They're fighting under 12 round rules so that's what they train for! What a ******ed standard.

It would be similar to ask how many fighters of the 70's can go 30 rounds with 4 oz gloves. How well would Ali and Foreman do under those circumstances? Do you really think it's relevant to measure a crop of fighters by rules they are NOT fighting under?

 

Er, he quit against Ali. He's a cowardly quitter, and any fighter who has never quit can beat him.

 

I think you make too much out of size. If size mattered, then Valuev would be the greatest heavyweight who ever lived. With Carnera and Klitschkos as runner-ups !
Today big guys has showed us how important talent is. Valuev nearly losing to a washed-up Holyfield ! And the Klitschkoes - very intellegent - but limitted as boxers. They rule because of the lack of talent and only because they are big, tall guys.
Liston had a lot of talent. He was compared to Joe Louis - a small heveyweight !
Did Louis ever have truoble with the big guys ? Never - he clupped them down, outboxed, outpunched and outworked each and everyone he met.
The thing is - that it is so difficult to hit downwards, it takes a lot out of the punch. The other way around is much easier. Both Louis and Liston took the impact out of big guys punches parading, moving or turning the head away from punches.
The heaveweights of today does´nt have the ability to avoid punches. They prefer to clinch - one of the reasons why heavyweight fights are so boring. James Toney masters the defense of oldtimers - and even at an advanged age this blown-up middleweight is a tough challenge for the big guys.'
No, Sonny Liston was too talented, too hardpunching for todays heavyweights.
Hay may change the picture - the man got a talent, a punch and I hope it can match his ego of huge dimensions.

 

In what sense is Wlad limited as a boxer? He has arguably THE best jab in entire boxing today, certainly the best jab in the division for years, he can hook off the jab, he can lead with the hook, feint, can stay off the ropes for 12 rounds (footwork) against an in-shape, confident pressing bull in Sam Peter, he doesn't get hit much.

His durability certainly limits him, as did his stamina in the past, but his boxing skills are excellent.

As for Louis not being troubled by big guys - back then, people in general were a lot smaller (hence most heavyweights being around 190lbs), so there was very little talent above 210lbs, simply because very few people got that big. Watch film on Max Baer; he packs a big punch and has a good chin, but his skills are horrible, even amateurish would be an insult to amateurs. Carnera was pretty good. Galento was a Briggs-type of guy: dangerous for a couple of rounds, but utterly limited otherwise. Got his titleshot mostly by beating up fringe contenders in his home town and by using his big mouth to promote. Buddy Baer was good but nothing special. Abe Simon was big and durable but again, very limited skill-wise.

None of them have the ability of either Klitschko, Chagaev, Povetkin or Haye.

As for punching down is harder than punching upwards.... I take it you've never boxed yourself.

 

size,size,size. i want to know the klits apart who are these supersized modern heavies? who are they? i watched wlad refuse to engage ibragimov who's similar in size to liston with half the power and an 8" shorter reach.if that was liston in front of him i think wlad would **** himself,i would give the much more mentally tougher vitali a better chance of beating liston.heck ancient blown up middles and cruisers like toney and holyfield are giving todays contenders trouble.