I got a chance to see a film of this fight a couple of weeks ago. I thought Carmen looked better than he did in the first fight although he still wasn't strong enough to handle Fullmer. I thought the referee, Pete Giacoma, did a lousy job of officiating. At one point Fullmer whacked Basilio a good one and Carmen went flat on his back and did a complete backward flip and was right up on his feet. It looked like a legitimate knockdown but the ref didn't rule it as such. Then the ref stopped the fight in the 12th round which didn't make any sense. Carmen was doing alot of clinching at that point but looked fit enough to continue and was mad as hell at Giacoma for stopping the fight. I agreed with Basilio. Has anyone else seen this one and if so what are your thoughts guys?
I have the fight on tape, but only was compelled to watch it once as it is a bit of a stinker. I actually thought Basilio looked worse in this fight than in the first one, as if all his hard fights had caught up with him. Fullmer was more aggressive and did more to initiate the action than he had in the first, but that actually made it a duller fight because Fullmer did a lot more holding/wrestling on the inside. It actually reminded me of a John Ruiz fight. I vaguely remember Basilio getting dropped and doing a backwards roll, but I can't remember the stoppage or what I thought of it.
I felt it was an earlier stoppage if I remember correctly I think the first fight was stopped early. I think for Carmen it was the good big man beats good little man also you can't fight fire with fire with a man so much bigger and stronger.
Wasn't a early stoppage at all. Fullmer sucked him into moving in on him when Gene had his back to the ropes and ****ing whacked him with a beautiful shot. Basilio was on extremely rubbery legs and Fullmer pursued him to the stoppage if I'm remembering correctly.
I think it was the second one that Basilio was so angry at the stoppage he almost beat up the ref. He was hurt as he got caught coming in but I don't think it warranted a stoppage. I might be getting the two fights confused but I'm talking about one of them.
I felt the stoppage was warranted in both fights, but to be fair the second one can be argued. The first fight Carmen got nailed with a huge overhand right that sent him to la-la-land and reeling to the corner where Fullmer followed him and started blasting him with vicious hooks and uppercuts to the midsection. At this point Carmen was clearly badly hurt and he was already far behind on the cards anyway with only a round to go so the refs intervention cannot be argued imo. Especially when you consider what a proud warrior Carmen was which means he would have stayed on his feet for as long as he could absorbing unecessary punishment in the process. The rematch saw Fullmer batter Basilio all around the ring in that 12th round and all Carmen was trying to do in that round was clinch and hold on after he got his bell rung real good by Gene. This went on for a good minute or longer before the ref stepped in to stop it. Now I agree that the manner in which the stoppage occured can be considered controversial, but when you take into account the fact that Carmen was again far behind on the cards and was not going to pull off a miraculous come from behind KO and was holding onto Gene as if his life depended on it I can understand the refs decision to an extent. Granted, referee Pete Giacoma probably should have given a warrior like Carmen the chance to finish the fight on his feet and instead warned him about the holding, especially since he wasn`t as badly beaten up in this fight as he was in the first. Anyway, as someone already said Carmen`s management should have never put their man in there with a guy like Gene. Carmen was a big & strong natural WELTERWEIGHT, whereas Gene was a big & strong natural MIDDLEWEIGHT, add it all up and their respective styles and its not hard to see that on paper this fight is all wrong for Carmen.... there is a reason why we have weight classes and their two fights illustrates why.
I like the summary about Basilio being a big and strong natural welterweight and Fullmer being a big and strong natural middleweight. 9 times out of 10 the bigger guy is going to win especially with similar styles. I remember Fullmer saying that he boxed Basilio rather than doing his usual thing of plowing face first into his opponent and slugging it out; "Two bulls locking horns" as Gene put it.
Thats a great way of putting it, Gene hit the nail on the head with that comment right there. Say, DFW, did you ever get the chance to see that Tony DeMarco/Virgil Akins fight? I remember a while back you had made mention of wanting to see it, did you get the chance to watch it finally?
