Hamed's Best Win?

Agreed, Dunky you just know if Scott Harrison or Alex Arthur had compiled a resume like that they would be the greatest fighter Britain has ever produced and a lock for the Hall of Fame :yep:yep:yep

On a serious note, it's an interesting question because he has several good solid wins over world championship class opposition, all of which are good for different reasons and none of which stands out massively from some of the others. I am going to go with Johnson on this one. Johnson had not lost for six years and had a number of good top ten fighters or world champs on his list like Rojas, Medina, Soto, Croft, Badillo and Beleno. He was Hamed's toughest test to that date and was despatched impressively. I don't agree that Johnson had significantly slowed down at 32 and he was clearly #2 in the division. The later career losses do little in my eyes to diminish his standing at the time of the bout.

Kelley was a good win for plenty of reasons too, another top three opponent on a good run, his overseas debut in his opponent's home town and he fought through and found a way to win despite never really hitting his stride. Robinson was his best performance against a severly underrated champion, whilst Bungu looks a cracking win on paper but those of us who watched the fight know that Bungu never showed up and he had little to beat.

Second tier, we probably have Medina, five time titlist (though to be fair that does mean having to have lost it four) and a good stoppage, Ingle (future champ, top ten fighter), Soto and McCullough, though in neither of the latter dd he particularly sparkle.

 

Johnson was shot.... It was considered almost a mismatch at the time. Funny how time changes peoples opinions.

 

I think you're getting senile in your old age Jeff :yep:yep:yep Though Hamed was favoured, Johnson was certainly considered a live dog at the time!

Agree to disagree on this one I think!

 

Agree Dunky. The below, I've posted the below before so excuse anything which isnt in context, but it sums up my thoughts on Naz...

"'Prince' Naseem Hamed - the man, the myth, the legend!! Naseem was the most colourful British boxer (and to give him credit - probably the world) between 1995 - 2001. He won titles at Super-Bantamweight and Featherweight. He took the WBC, IBF and held the WBO for quite some time. He kayoed the equally brash Kevin Kelly in one of the fights of the decade in Madison Square Garden and established himself as one of the finest British boxers of his generation overcoming Wayne McCullough and Paul Ingle amongst others. His style was incomparable. Agility he had in abundance, he was lightening quick and he was one of the hardest punching featherweights to have graced the sport, as his record of 36-1(31KO) proves. He put bums on seats for years and thrust British boxing and the featherweight division into the spot light. And for all of this he deserves the highest praise.

But for me it was what Naseem didn’t do that leaves me somewhat disillusioned by his apparent success. Everyone knows that he was schooled by Barrera (7th April 2001 - hence the reason for the Naseem commentary in my April email) but that aside there are too many criticisms of Hamed to class him as anything other than a great British boxer rather than a great boxer. He (intentionally or not) avoided fighting the best in the division until his defeat to Barrera. Wins over Kevin Kelly, Tom Johnson and Medina were good and left him ranked as number one in the weight. But he was beaten by the only genuine world class fighter he stepped in the ring with. At the time the featherweight division was littered with prospects and champions such as; Morales, In-Jin Chi, Johnny Tapia, Paulie Ayala, and to a lesser extent Eduardo Alvarez (probably not as highly rated by most) and Arturo Gatti (who had probably just begun to climb the weights by 2000/2001). Yes he fought and beat Vasquez but the guy was 37 at the time!!

Naseem's career was as up and down as his discipline. After 11 fights he mercilessly battered Belcastro for the European Bantamweight crown. A tremendous achievement for a fighter so young and inexperienced. He went on to stop Steve Robinson within 8 rounds for the WBO Featherweight title, making him Britain's youngest ever world champion at 21. After a couple of defences (one of which saw Hamed hit the floor for the first time in his career) Naseem took on Manuel Medina. Although experienced, the ageing Mexican should have been a routine defence for Hamed. However, Naseem's relative inexperience at this level showed. He tried to pick off Medina with single punches. At times he almost jumped into an oncoming jab trying to land a hook of his own. Hamed took some punishment in the fight but was able to retire Medina in his stool at the end of round 10. A chorus of boos greeted the champion from the clearly unimpressed crowd.

Better times were to follow with wins over Johnson for the IBF title and Sotto for the WBC (despite these fights being some more lacklustre performances). After a few more mandatory defences came Kevin Kelly. Naseem beat the Yank within 4 rounds. This was an absolute brawl. Here for me lies one of the fundamental flaws of Naseem Hamed. Revert back to my first paragraph… he was like the proverbial sh*t off a shovel, agile as they come and could throw punches from unbelievable angles while being the hardest hitter around at the time. This all went to pot far too often. Against Kelly he reverted back to the Medina performance. Looking to end the fight with one punch. In the end he did knock his man out, but it was far harder work than it should have been. There was also the disgrace of Nas completely ignoring his long term trainer's (Brendan Ingle) instructions in the corner. All this was the backdrop to the Barrera fight. As unbelievable as it seems now, Naseem was favourite on the night. It was believed that Barrera was too easy to hit and Naseem was stronger than his foe. Some critics even suggested that Naseem only took the fight after Barrera was beaten by Morales the year before. Hamed was schooled. In the same way Gatti would never be the same after he fought Mayweather, Hamed would never be the same after Barrera. He returned for one more fight which he won after his defeat to Barrera but he knew what the rest of the world now knew. Hamed had been found out. For all his natural attributes, he did not have the nouse in the ring or the discipline to make it at the top level. And, for one reason or another, he only got one chance to prove he could have been world class and he was beaten. Turns out, he just wasn’t good enough..."

 

:huh No it wasn't. Johnson was considered a threat.

 

I hate Naz as much as the next guy, but Boom Boom was considered live at the time.

 

I hate when you read things like 'he just wasnt good enough'.

Bollocks.


He was clearly good enough, losing one fight on points when he was not at his best, and handnt prepared properly against an ATG at the top of his game who fought a near perfect fight doesnt hold anything against him. Not coming back does but it still doesnt take anything away from what he did do.

 

If you read my whole post, you'll see I'm more concerned with what he didnt do

 

I did, its a decent well reasoned standpoint on him . :good Till the last line, what youve wrote pretty much proves he was good enough, just didnt have the dedication/mentality to take it as far as he should.

 

Apologies, the context, from memory, was whether Naz was an 'elite' boxer.

My point was that he was a great British boxer, but not a great boxer.

Not an ATG, not a HOF but a quality British export - no better no worse.

 

very few fighters are "elite" by your ridiclous unfair standards

Naz at his peak was the NO 1 Featherweight in the World.

And in anybodys top ten pound for pound list.

He may not of been the "greatest featherweight that ever lived" as he bragged he would be..............but he is defenetly one of the best to come along in a long time

He may not go down in history next to Sugar Ray Robinison, Muhammed Ali, Sugar Ray Lenonard, etc................but then most boxers dont

He was one of the elite fighters of his day

And PADDY I remeber debating Hamed with you before and you actually said you didnt regard him as world class

He cleaned up the featherweights,,,,,wan all the belts except the WBA but he beat the WBA Champion anyway with the belt not on the line

He smashed up everyone............and you say he werent world class :huh


What the **** have you got to do to be considered world class..................

Even someone ranked NO 20 in the world in their division can be considered fringe World Class

Get a grip pal............your reasoning is ******ed :good

 

Wow! Being called a ****** by Flint may actually be a compliment if I tracked the negatives long enough to work it out.

But... to the point in hand.

I stand by my point. Hamed was a good British boxer. Not world class. Barrerra, Morales et al were world class. Someone like Mayweather is elite. I dont see why this reasoning is '******ed'. Does it really matter what tag I put on it? Point is I see Naz as at least two levels away from the top bracket of boxers. The top bracket being elite, the next bracket down being world class.

If you disagree Flint, then fair enough, but the logic is far from '******ed'.

 

:roflpatsch:!:

I disagree ...............I think that is fair enough PADDY old boy !!!!!!

Hamed was more than world class...........he was at his prime the NO 1 featherweight in the world.

A line of form shows that Naz destroyed Remigio Molina inside 2 rounds.

Remigio Molina then went six rounds with Morales.

Morales and Barrera and Hamed were the 3 top super bantamweights and featherweights of their day

the other 20 super bantamweights and featherweights rated below them were still good enough to be considered world class

By your ******ed standards............no fighters would be world class apart form the best of the era :huh

Naz was not only world class..............he beat a string of world class fighters

 

If Barrera is at least 2 classes above Hamed, and we all know Barrera was on form with a top gameplan and Hamed was a bit off and with a **** gameplan....well you see what im saying?