Les Darcy vs. Tommy Gibbons

I know the storis surounding Darcy but I have to question whether there might be a Salvador Sanchez effect at work here.

Great fighter has his career cut short prompting speculation about what might have been. Some fighters that have shown great potential early on have also burned out early for one reason or another.

Darcy was undoubtedly great but guys like Harry Greb and Tommy Gibbons had full careers, made the major fights, and put their potential beyond a shadow of a doubt.

 

I think a lot of people overrate Darcy because he died so young. Lets not forget all of those impressive wins were accomplished on his home turf against guys travelling literally thousands of miles from home to face him. Darcy was fighting in a stadium owned by his management and the referee was often his managers brother. In addition to this it should be remembered that his fights with George KO Brown (who was just a crude, strong, mauler) could have gone either way, he was basically knocked out by Jeff Smith but the referee DQd Darcy to save the embarrassment of a KO loss and in the rematch Smith was DQd before the fight even got started. Smith was bitter about this for the rest of his life and he probably had a right to be considering he was regarded as one of the most classical, clean boxing stylists of that era. For me the real test of Darcy would have been how he would have fared once he came to the United States and had to face the same hardships that his opponents did in Australia. I dont think he would have fared so well. Keep in mind also that once he reached the USA he had outgrown the middleweight division and promoters here were wanting to throw him to the wolves against best competition from MW to HW. I think Darcy would have been used and abused and sent back to Australia with a very different legacy.

 

What is it about my statement that yhou think is funny?
Mike Gibbons beat
Tommy Murphy
Mike O Dowd
Augie Ratner x2
Jeff Smith x4
Eddie McGoortyx2
George Ko Brownx3
SoldierBartfieldx2
George Chip
Jack Dillonx2
Frank Mantell
Harry Greb
Ted Kid Lewis
Jimmy Clabbyx2
Bob Moha
Al McCoy
Willie Lewisx2
He ended up with 112 wins and 9 losses and was NEVER STOPPED.
Les Darcy is a what MIGHT have been. MIke Gibbons in the proven package.Darcy was a big fish in a little pond.His tragic and untimely death colours his achievments and promotes them up to mythic status.Tommy Gibbons would have beaten him and his brother Mike probably would have too.

 

I would definately favor Mike Gibbons over Darcy. Mike was better than Tommy (Tommy would admit this).

Darcy make Greb cry? You need to lay off the Fosters...

 

A very well thought out load of rubbish. You should consider writing Presdiential speeches..... the sort of rubbish Pres. Bush embarrasses your nation with..

Darcy had not outgrown the M/W div. by the time he arrived in the States. He had not been in full training for months, and began to gain extra weight... attributed to Septiciemia... the blood poisoning condition that eventually killed him.

The top liners that travelled "1000s of Miles" to fight on Australian shores, faught here for an reasonable period... gaining suffiecient time to accomodate... gain fitness... and be in the best shape to fight 20 rounds. I have not read a negative report.

Fighting at the Sydney Stadium, under the Management/promotions of Snowy Baker/Hugh McIntosh was not an issue in the eyes a single fighter that Darcy faced. Not a single word from any man Les faught, suggests anything, but favourable words for Darcy. No suggestion of bias, or unwelcomed conditions at the Stadium.
Jeff Smith refused to talk about Darcy.... insisting "let the poor bloke rest in peace".

All top promoters/managers had been in competition to gain control of Les, upon arrival in the States.... Rickard... Kearns..Curly...
Rickard set up an exhibition spar for the press, against Fred Fulton.... Darcy bashed the 6' 6" H/W ... the sparring to be stopped... to prevent serious damage. Fulton insisted Darcy was a powerhouse...
As Willard was the H/W champ, and hardly a phenomenal drawcard/crowd pleaser, a match was being proposed/negotiated for Les.

 

A wild guess ,are you Australian ?

 

Nearly everything youve said in this post is untrue.

 

No its not its compeletey true.

Both me Flamengo have read Darcy's books.

Which were the Peter Fenton Book on Darcy was from people who knew Les and from Papers from America.

All of what Flamengo said is true.

Do you know 10,000 San Francisco natives lined the docks when Darcy's body was puit on the ship to go back to Australia.

In 1917 he was a bigger drawcard and more popular than any boxers you had of the time.
And he was Australian.

Ive read the books.
As for Mike Gibbons and Harry Greb these guys were constantly fighting 10 rounders that would end in No Decision Darcy from the age of 17 was fighting 20 rounders. and beating guys like Fritz Holland.

Everything that Flamengo posted is true. He knocked out Fulton in practice just about everyone in Classic forum knows of this.

 

If Les Darcy does not contract blood poisoning, and comes to party in 1917 he will likley have to face many or most of the following oponents, with verry short periods between fights:

Middleweight
George Chip (nobody just fought Chip once)
Al McCoy
Mike O'Dowd
Mike Gibbons (fought prety muchg everyone)
Harry Greb (fought prety muchg everyone)

Lightheavy
Jack Dillon (fought prety muchg everyone)
Battlinng Levinsky (fought prety muchg everyone)
Tommy Gibbons
Harry Greb (you dont escape Greb just by stepping up)

Heavyweight (sorry pal you have to fight at heavyweight this is where the money is)
Billy Miske (fought prety muchg everyone)
Gunboat Smith
Charlie Weinert

That is a prety darn brutal division for anybody to step into.

 

Remember he was suppose to fight.
Jack Dillion,Al McCoy but remeber your stupid government wouldnt let him.

His first manager had signed him on to fight Mike Gibbons but Darcy had left Et Sullivan because of he was taking a third of Darcy's money.

So Darcy left him for Tex Rickard.
Tex tried and tried to organize fights in New Orleans New York to Memphis with Dillon and McCoy.

But again like ive stated your government stopped Les from fighting.

All we do know that Tex Rickard was on hand to see Darcy floor Fred Fulton in 2 rounds when he was suppose to fight Willard soon.

If that doesnt tell someone Darcy was better than just ok i dont know what else does.

 

He would have beat many of those names and to say he wouldnt have is just plain old fashioned BULL****.

Mate he blew away George Chip and only 3 months earlier George Chip put away Harry Greb.

You Yanks are unreal. Your own government had to stop Darcy from fighting he was that good.
Then they poisened the best Horse to ever live in the 30's.:yep

 

You seem a trifle over sensitive about any slight critiscism regarding Darcy ,he won two fights against Fritz Holland and lost two .Holland's record isnt exactly studded with victories over great fighters is it? Harry Greb fought Chip three times ,winning two, and losing a close decision [nws] to him Chip DID NOT PUT GREB AWAY.If you are this careless with the facts it doesn't look good for your other assertions.Darcy may have gone on to be all that you say he was ,but the fact is we will never know.

 

Darcy was so good our govt had to stop him from fighting? You are ****ing nuts! Darcy was not allowed to fight because he was in this country illegally after illegally running from your country to avoid his obligation to fight.

You cannot dispute the fact that ALL of his fights were fought in the stadium owned by his management using officials who were not only friendly to and hired by that management but were also on several occasions RELATED to his management. His biggest wins came against fighters literally thousands of miles away from home and yes he did manage to lose to Holland and had two controversial wins over mediocre KO brown and two controversial fights against Jeff Smith who knocked him out once but was robbed of it and was stopped in the second fight by DQ to validate the Darcy's claims of foul in the first fight. And YES Jeff Smith was very bitter about his treatment at the hands of the Australians. Fenton's book (which is a love letter to Darcy) states that Smith said to let it lay but upon returning to the USA Smith and his manager Al Lippe were very vocal about their treatment in Australia. As for Eddie McGoorty and Jimmy Clabby, well, Im sure they enjoyed their time there, they both became inveterate gamblers and alcoholics there which may be great for having fun but isnt great for training to fight. And yes, once again, Darcy had outgrown the middleweight limit by the time he reached the USA. Keep in mind that at that time the middleweight limit was 158. In Australia it was 160 and Darcy had been struggling to make 160. By the time he reached the united states his weight was between 180 and 200 pounds. Its laughable that you attribute this septicemia. Septimicemia is a very rapid infection that if not treated (which Darcy's wasnt) kills quickly (which his did). Weight gain is definately NOT a syptom of septicemia and furthermore Darcy was not suffering septicemia when he arrived in the USA. In fact weight loss is a symptom of septicemia and when one is suffering from this condition it is extremely important to maintain their body weight and fluid/food intake. As for what Chip did to Greb and Darcy did to Chip. A. Greb was not nearly in his prime yet. Period. B. That fight was held in Chips hometown. and C. I wonder how different a Darcy/Chip fight would look in Chips hometown with Chips brother officiating and his manager acting as the promoter and stadium owner while Darcy was having to fight thousands of miles away from him in a hostile environment after days at sea and having to train on food you werent accustomed to, in environments you werent used to, etc etc. Think about that when you think Darcy would have come here and set the world on fire. Dave Smith, Darcy's trainer (and one of the guys who padded his record) thought the same thing and look what happened to him...

 

The plan was for Darcy to tackle Jack Dillon intially. Billy Miske, George Carpentier and, with a bit of tongue in cheek, Jess Willard were also mentioned as options.

The NY Times covered a photo shoot with Darcy and Willard to show how similar their reach was and that Darcy sported larger fists; he was built like a brick.

Thoughts on the match-up later.

 

With regard to Darcy's rapid weight decline, the tooth infection was the start of his troubles which eventually lead to pneumonia.