Jim Jeffires - So, If The Following Is True....

I have allways felt that Jeff had more fights that listed, eg for that Dan Long fight he was the betting favorite. Also Jim Jeffords claimed to have beaten Jeffries in an amature fight, lots of hints like that but no solid proof.
However Jeffries did have a couple of draws along the way that mitigates against the 49-0.

 

The information, while possibly true, is inconclusive. He may have had an additional 20 fights. He may have had more than just an additional 20 fights and he may not even have had as many as the paper said. What's more, we don't know what the outcomes of all of his additional fights were, or if these matches were truly fights against registered professionals, possibly explaining why many of them were never officially recorded.

A single newspaper source from over 100 years ago does not give us enough to go by. Even with all the technology and information that publication companies have at their disposal today, there are still plenty of inaccuracies. During a time when record keeping was very spotty, its difficult to determine what a man's whole career truly looked like.

 

"Jim Jeffords claimed to have beaten Jeffries in an amateur fight"

This is very interesting. Do you have any more detail about this.

 

I agree it's not much in itself but it makes some of us go on and try and find the fights, if they existed. At least one, if not two, writers are researching JJ at the moment so they may find something.
BTW I dont think there was any such thing as registered professionals in thoes days.

 

Yes, I think a better question would be how many of these fights, if they did, in fact, take place (in my experience, let it be noted, newspaper accounts from 50+ years back do fairly regularly get figures wrong), were genuine counting matches as opposed to the exhibitions/No Decision bouts which were so common at the time and often made up a substantial chunk of a fighter's career.

 

It depends who was on the newly discovered list fo 20 names. Jeffries has reported KO's over some names Ed Martin, Frank Childs, Kid Cotton, Hank Lorraine, etc... Of the reported KO names, Martin is the big fish on the list.

I think is these names were found, yeah-- Jeffries would move up a notch or two, espcially from those who say Jeffries did not have enough fights.

One theroy to ponder is this, would a fighter start his career in a 20 round match? Accoring to box rec findings of confirmed fights, Jeffries did. It would make sense to start out with 4, 6, 8, or 10 rounders.

Thoughts?

 

Ed Martin' first two fights were over 20rds.Jeffries had been retired 6 years before Kid Cotton had his first pro fight.

 

Russell,

Jeffries KO'd a dozen men on his European tour in 1899 when he took on all comers.

So it is possible he has 20 undocumented wins in the USA prior to May 1896, AND 12 wins in Europe.

If the reports are correct, this means Jeffries has 50 wins, 2 draws, and 1 defeat.

There is a way to dig this up, but the researcher is going to have to purcahse old and defunct newspapers that are not on line from the Western USA region, and Great Brittan areas from 1890-1900 to verify / dig up the names.

 

FWIW I believe Jefferies was the best heavyweight ever. Just like many old-timers the exhibition bout have to be considered and Jefferies beat everyone in his day black, white, and many champions and when he beat them he did so very convincingly.

Many boxing historian DO consider Jefferies the greatest still.

His complete record here:
http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/jeffries.htm

 

On one hand, stringing that many victories on his resume thickens it by a substantial amount.

On the other hand, he loses some of that "came, saw, conquered" mystique that came with fighting top competition with very little experience. He loses something that sets him apart from most, if not all, of the other HW champs.

 

It has been posted quite a few times that there was a 5/22/1896 article in the SF Chronicle (page 9) which said he had fought and bested not a few men, but no number was given.

It goes on to add some names:

"Jeffries has bested his opponents in short order. Two rounds, three rounds, five rounds is the history of his fights. He put George Griffin out in eleven seconds. Frank Childs, the 'colored cyclone' of Los Angeles went out in two rounds, and Childs had bested LaBlanche and 'Billy' Smith. It took the young giant the same length of time to put out Joe Cotton."

It should be pointed out that Childs at this time, prior to 1896, was probably a middleweight at most, and Joe Cotton was a welterweight. The Griffin mentioned is George not Hank. No one has ever given any info on George so he was certainly not a really top fighter.

 

There might be some real problems. There is a very powerful movement in the United States in the late 19th century and on into the Progressive Era to rid society of a number of vices, many blamed on immigrants from Ireland or Southern Europe, or on the Catholics and the Jews. Boxing was lumped among these evils along with alcohol, gambling, and prostitution. I remember reading an article in a San Francisco paper of the 1890's which stated that national woman's groups were organizing boycotts of any merchants who advertised in papers which covered boxing matches. The impact of such a boycott on boxing coverage in the press could be devastating.

It is possible that many fights were simply not reported because it was not good business to report them.

Jeffries, by the way, was the son of a prominent Protestant clergyman. Many boxing people probably welcomed him as champion and the flagship fighter of the sport. But, if Jeff were fighting in the early 1890's, we know it would be against his father's wishes, and so it is likely it would have been under an assumed name.

 

This would be my take on the what if of Jeffries having another 20 fights prior to his generally accepted record--I think it cuts both ways. He becomes a more experienced fighter but this also means that the spin put on his early fights--he had only a few fights when he took on the 165 pound Choynski or was far more inexperienced than Sharkey--would no longer wash. Jeff's experence level when he moved up to world class competition would not be that much different than later ATG's.

 

On a side note, to add on to jeffries badassissity. a chap from where i live named jack monroe claimed to have knocked down jeffries in a draw. and jeffries came all the way up here from california to stop him in the second round and end monroe's tale. the funny part is we still named a main street after him. for what? lying and getting knocked out atsch and they teach us in our public schools, in history class, that monroe did knock him down