Thrilla in Manilla Round 15

Ali's heart and will to win would never allow him to quit, and he would have continued to pummel frazier untill the final bell, if the ref didn't stop the fight first.

 

Ali said "cut em off" after the end of the 14th round. How could it not be more evident as he was staggering back to his own corner? He didn't say it after the 10th. Why would he say that five rounds before the ending of the fight, when he still had some energy left in his tank?

Like I said, maybe Pacheco is changing his story after all these years, maybe Ali said absolutely nothing and we're all just imagining this stuff? What I know from interviews that I've watched and heard with my own ears is that Ali SAID he wanted to quit after the 14th round. The only person ignoring him in the corner was Angelo Dundee, the head trainer who's job it was to prepare his fighter for the last round. The only time Pacheco ever said Ali LITERALLY asked to have his gloves cut off was after the 14th. Ali never said "cut em off," after the 10th. I do believe Ali questioned his own resolve in the 10th round, asking his corner how much more he could take. Saying something and doing it are two totally different things as a fact of life.

Do I think Ali would have quit? Probably not, because he was one of the toughest heavyweight champions ever, more than people give him credit for. I do believe that Frazier would have tried to finish the fight on his feet, and even with his face a mess, had slightly more energy than Ali.

 

Do you know who Willie Monroe was, as a fighter?

 

So I guess Angelo Dundee LIED in subsequent interviews about tearing Ali's glove further to stall for more recovery time? So is it safe to say he's changing his story now?

I don't recall a five minute break after the round, but what happened in the corner did give Ali significant recovery time. So I guess Angelo didn't call the ref and tell him that "my guy's gut a rip in his glove?"

I don't care what anyone says, that hook that Cooper nailed Ali with hurt him and he was still stunned going back to the corner. If Dundee sent him out for the next round after the one minute break, I'm not so sure Ali would have been able to avoid getting hit and possibly dropped again by Cooper.

 

No, and I really don't care. I just found the nick name funny under the circumstances.

 

So the fact that the film from the fight shows that Ali/Clay just got a couple of seconds extra means nothing?

He might very well have changed gloves, it just didn't take that long. Doesn't really matter, though. The length of the break is easy to see on the film from the fight and that's the only thing of relevance.

 

Man. You're beating this horse into mince meat. If you can't see that the "Ali wanted to quit after the 14:th"-notion has been disproved, then there's really nothing more to say. Because I've had it with this discussion.

 

No disrespect to you Bokaj, but Willie Monroe was actually not too bad a boxer that beat Marvin Hagler, Eugene Hart and Billy Douglas.

Believe what you want to believe.

 

Tell me how it has been disproved when I'm just stating what I've read and heard from the men involved? Is your word the ultimate on this forum? Too Funny.

 

Its not what you SAY in boxing, its what you DO......

And Ali beat Frazier thru 14 excellent rds so really thats the end of it whether Ali said he didnt want to continue or not, I`ll stick by facts, Ive watched the full fight loads of times & Ali BEAT Frazier.... absolutely no question.

`Sit down Joe, its all over, & nobody will ever forget what a beating you recieved here today`

Maybe THAT was Futch`s real words ?.... who knows eh ?

 

The round was an extra ten seconds at most. Clay was badly hurt, but Dundee has since claimed the break was between a 'minute and five minutes', the story has been embellished since, just like in Manilla. Are you saying things like this never happen? Boxing history is littered with such items. Ever heard of the phrase "don't let the fact get in the way of a good story"? If you haven't heard this it's only because your couldn't hear any noise, as Joe Frazier's arse is obviously soundproof.

 

You obviously do.

 

The glove was NOT replaced,and the time delay was negligible.

 

:-( Now you should know better than to let facts get in the way of unsubstantiated claims, hearsay and ignorance ... shame on you!

 

Ali would floor Frazier in the 15th and probably get a UD, though a TKO wouldn't have been out of the question.