Frazier's Power

Ali had badly bruised hip bones from the incessant pounding of Frazier's hooks.
No one should suggest that Frazier was not a hard puncher,just not in the class of some others ,eg.


Dempsey
Louis
Baer
Marciano
Johannson
Liston
Foreman
Lewis
Tyson
Klitschko

And probably not
Sullivan
Fitz
Jeffries
Schmeling
That does not even include non champions like
Satterfield
Williams
Choynsky
Shavers
Foster
Ray
Godfrey
Sheppard

 

I don't think it hard to find 5 more powerful punchers from each decade of the last century.

 

C'mon Senya13. You're really discrediting his power. Surely Frazier belongs within the top 100?

Ask Chuvalo about the left hook that caved in his eyesocket and ruptured a blood vessel. Ask Manuel Ramos about the body shot that took him out in the second round of their bout.

Ali will tell you about Frazier's power. The man had pretty strong, thick legs helping him generate more power as a shorter, swarming fighter. Anyone who's watched Frazier knows his style was to wear opponents down by volume, especially to the body first.

To say that Frazier doesn't belong in the top 50 in terms of punching power is wrong. Can you honestly name 50 heavyweights, champions and contenders, even fringe contenders that have more power, particularly in the left hook than Frazier?

 

Excuse me, gentlemen, but has anyone pointed out what Frazier's KO percentage happens to be? Wouldn't that go some way toward at least a definition of punching power in one important sense, perhaps even the most important sense?

As Janitor noticed back at the beginning Frazier's "power" seems to be more geared to TKOs.

Yet many here persist in defining his "power" in terms of how he crumpled the heavy bag, or made Ali's face look like a watermelon. Others say his opponents felt good about slipping one of his punches. These examples of power sound a lot like what we might hear from someone in a school yard fight.

Sure, we can define "power" anyway we like, but sometime or other we have to agree on a more acceptable standard. Don't we?

And why would KO percentage not be that? I have no idea what his KO percentage was so some of you learned folks can cite that. Then we can see where he stands. And it should be relevant even over his 30 or so fights.

 

The facts are that Frazier broke a bone in the vicinity of Chuvalo's eye socket. I am not sure, but I think I read somewhere that Chuvalo had an operation done in that area sometime before the Frazier fight. Since Joe didn't break anyone else's bone with his punches before or after the Chuvalo fight, I think it is safe to assume that it was a chance happening.

And since George Chuvalo never turned away from any other opponent, including Foreman, who was obviously a more powerful puncher than Frazier, I think we can again safely assume that the excruiciating pain resulting from the broken bone and the ruptured blood vessel caused by it was the reason why Chuvalo turned away from Frazier.

If I remember correctly, he said "my eyeball felt as big as a grapefruit" immediately after the fight.

 

Just to set the record straight though, I would like to add the IMO Frazier was a very hard puncher. But just not the type who could knock you out or set you up with one punch.

 

Chuvalo was stopped ,coherent and on his feet, Ramos quit.

 

Ali had a swelling on his right cheek ,end of story.If you measure power by the appearance of your opponent after the fight Ali must have hit like hell as Frazier looked like he'd had his head stuck in a Beehive for a day !

 

So where do you rank Frazier's power Mr. McVey, or do you think Frazier has no power to even warrant being mentioned in this thread?

I believe he's inside the top 15 of all time. No question, Frazier doesn't have the power of Foreman, Shavers, Lyle, Liston and Tyson, who I believe are the heaviest hitters the sport has ever seen.

 

Why do you call me Mr?.Are you in awe of my unsurpassed pugilistic expertise?
As to Frazier's power ? I think my earlier posts show my rating,I would put him outside the top 20 ,but inside the top 30.Lyle I think is a little overated his story is a little like Mac Foster', once he moved up in class the kos dried up a bit.

 

I think you are counting both TKOs and KOs. Just checked his record and it seems he knocked out only 10 opponents.

Wouldn't it seem to you that the KO is a more definitive exhibition of power in that it is very decisive and less clouded by judgment calls. In fact, in the old days of boxing, I understand cuts and such didn't as often stop a fight thereby denying a win to a fighter by TKO.

Curiously enough, Frazier was himself KOed 3 times if I counted correctly. So he was KOed about a third as often as he KOed someone else. I wonder what this tells us?

 

That is a silly rationale.If you want to get a handle on Frazier's power ,take a look at how many men he actually kod,in particular how many ranked men.
Kayo percentages ,can give some indication of power ,but are often misleading ,eg Primo Carnera had 72 ko's,Young Stribling had 128 ,but take a look over whom they were scored.Lamar Clark had 43 kos in 44 wins for a 91.49%,name a ranked fighter he kod.
ConverselyLew Jenkins and Ike Williams 2 big punching lightweights had relatively low percentages,Jenkins42.98%,Williams 38.71%.
Joe Louis ,when he kod Braddock smashed Braddocks teeth through his mouth peice and right through his lip ,plus putting 27 stitches in his face.
Fighting Paulino,Louis knocked 4 of his gold teeth out with a single punch.Koing Buddy Baer in the second fight Louis smashes a right to the huge Baer's face that made him do a perfect pirouette to fall unconscious to the canvas.Take a squint at Marciano's ko of Walcott .That is power.

 

Got suckered into the very thing I was critical of, that is, allowing the Wikipedia page of Frazier's record to make me think Frazier was KOed three times. No, he was TKOed 3 times.

But they do make clear in the details that he did have only 10 legitimate KOs. So my primary point is surely that is a more definitive expression of power than a TKO since it is more objective than a TKO.

Hence, what is all this talk of Frazier's power when measured against real power punchers?

 

That's what has been puzzling me! Some posters are very defensive of old Smokin Joe,understandable he is a good guy,but lets just have the facts.ps Good job he isn't Australian ,judging by the Les Darcy threads,they would claim he hit like King Kong !

 

No disrespect to you, just trying to respect everyone on this forum, and I have no patience for insults and name calling. So thanks for not keeping it clean without hurting anyones feelings hear.

We're all fans of the sweet science, and some of us might have even boxed before, I know I have.

I can live with your ranking of Frazier inside the top 30 in terms of overall power, but in terms of his left hook alone, he's definitely well inside the top 20 and perhaps top 10.