Les Darcy vs. Tommy Gibbons

Interesting words.... Pity Saylor didnt have first hand ring knowledge of Darcy... as for KO Brown, Im suprised to hear he mentioned that.... Thanks for the input.. be interested to hear more from you regarding Darcy, and attitudes towrds him, if you will. Cheers..

If Darcy was overreated, I guess Chip, Clabby, McGoorty, Smith, Christie, Murray, Holland... etc etc were very over rated then?????

One more point, Darcy had his last fight in 1916.... perhaps some time could be spent searching through 1914 and 1915 also.... Im sure you'll appreciate his value.

:good

 

Darcy isn't a focus of my research, but who knows, maybe I'll come across something further. If so, I'll try to pass it along here. The other thing I remember reading about McGoorty was that someone said (maybe Saylor) that he was thinking about hanging it up around the time he fought Darcy, and that he was past his prime and retired shortly thereafter. I didn't check that out at all, so can't really comment about that, it's just something I read. In any case, there appears to have been quite a bit of speculation as to who here in the States Darcy would fight. It's too bad none of the various fights talked about occured.

 

The thing that ****'s me off the most is that some say here that Darcy was just overated because he only won big fights on home soil.

Well if thats the case i guess every American fighter is overated becuase they never travel and i mean never travel.

Just goes to show that if our fighters fought all the time at home i wonder what some of our fighters records would look like.

Food for thought.

Look im not saying Darcy was better than Greb or Gibbons but what i am saying if he had not died he would have racked up wins against Greb and Gibbons in these 10 round fights.

**** if guys like Chip was racking up wins like that why wouldnt Darcy.

 

Most experts, when Darcy arrived to the US, thought that he needed at least several bouts against lower-class opposition before he was ready to meet the top-notchers. That he chose to challenge Al McCoy, technical champion, who got the title by fluke, instead of accepting challenges from top middleweights and light heavyweights, or him challenging Jess Willard for a bout (after it was previously debated that Dillon, light heavyweight, who was bigger than Darcy, was too small for Willard, so the bout between them would not be competitive), and with Rickard trying to arrange Darcy to meet Carpentier for a while, declining all other challenges, didn't help Darcy's popularity. Add to this his thetrical (vaudeville) engagements instead of fighting, and people really started to doubt how good he was.

 

No american fighters traveled? If that were the case nobody would have heard of Darcy because thats he got his name: fighting american expatriots and managing to lose to some of them despite having the odds stacked in his favor.

Milburn Saylor did have first hand knowledge of Les Darcy, he knew Darcy and had seen him fight and may have even sparred with him while he was in Australia. I suppose Fenton's book (which seems to be the only source our Australian friends here can refer to) makes no mention of that

"Most experts, when Darcy arrived to the US, thought that he needed at least several bouts against lower-class opposition before he was ready to meet the top-notchers. That he chose to challenge Al McCoy, technical champion, who got the title by fluke, instead of accepting challenges from top middleweights and light heavyweights, or him challenging Jess Willard for a bout (after it was previously debated that Dillon, light heavyweight, who was bigger than Darcy, was too small for Willard, so the bout between them would not be competitive), and with Rickard trying to arrange Darcy to meet Carpentier for a while, declining all other challenges, didn't help Darcy's popularity. Add to this his thetrical (vaudeville) engagements instead of fighting, and people really started to doubt how good he was."

The above quote is 100% accurate. This is something Darcy hero worshippers cannot admit or wrap their minds around. 90% of damage done to Darcy's reputation was not done by Snowy Baker, McCintosh, or the US Govt. It was done by Darcy himself and his eargerness to put money before anything else. He made the decision to ILLEGALLY flee his country, he came here and rather than fight the best, or ANYONE, he chose to try to capitilize on his reputation by going on a very unsuccessful vaudville tour. The tour was unsuccessful because it quickly became apparent that Darcy was more eager to make money the easiest way possible than prove himself to the skeptical public. When offered big money matches he refused to fight unless paid more and wanted to fight weak competition. He turned down oodles of money to face Mike Gibbons and Jack Dillon choosing instead to focus on Al McCoy, a champion in name only. Nobody was going to pay to see that and it was during all of this waste of time that public sentiment began to grow against Darcy. You wrong to assume that he was outcast upon arriving here. He wasnt. It was weeks if not months before he became a total pariah in this country. The bottom line is that Darcy overestimated his worth as a fighter and attraction and felt he could get away with the wrongs he committed through his celebrity. It was a terribly naive calculation and one he paid dearly for.

 

Klompton... "Australian Friends"??? You'll have to work a little harder to win my friendship.

'The Fenton Book'??? HMMMMM.... again, poor excuse..

Ive been through the Hunter valley district.. which encompasses Maitland, Darcy's home town, in the presence of Bob Power.. author of "Les Darcy, American Venture".. Bob died several years ago... about 90 years old... He, himself, was our most festidious Darcy historian... in the days spent with him, my personal appreciation was to grow immensely for Darcy...

Further time Has been spent with Raymond Swanwick... another Darcy historian and author... not too mention, countless conversations.

'Fentons book' is another in my library. Perhaps you 'Underestimate' who you might be talking to, or about......

Copies of these books, were also sent to DPW417..... perhaps you might be interested in a view of them???

Im midway through penning, a more indepth composition...especially for you Klompton. Im sure you'll like it..... be patient "friend"...

 

I think you mistake me. I love Darcy. I have every bit of footage ever filmed of him dead or alive. Im keenly interested in the period when American fighter went to fight in Australia. However, I also take Darcy's legend with a slight grain of salt. I cant totally discount his wins but as I said they were accomplished with every advantage in his favor. He had great potential but Im not convinced that potential was realized.

 

Which filmed fights of Darcy do you have?

 

chip
mcgoorty 1
clabby
dave smith
george ko brown

 

I wonder if the Aussies ,arguing so vehemently for Darcy have seen all these fights?

 

Just so you understand the print, I'll respond to suit you.....

McveyIdohavefootageofalltheabovementions.thanksforyourinterstmate.
Infact,fromwhatIsee,Darcyhandledeachandeveymanwithverywell.
Cheers.

 

Just so you understand me.
I am NOT your Mate,in fact I find you rather an insulting *****,not particularly to me , but to others who dare to disagree with you like Klompton.I'm sure you will get around to me but be that as it may .
I appreciated your somewhat clumsy attempt at humour ,at my expense . My punctuation does indeed leave a lot to be desired,but then so does your objectivity.How do you think Muhammad Ali and Joe Louis do against Les Darcy ,? Do they have any chance in your opinion?
Iwouldgivelouisapuncherschancewhataboutyou? :yep

 

The footage of McGoorty and Brown is inconclusive as both clips are very short. The McGoorty footage is primarily of the knockout and doesnt show much action leading up to it. The Brown footage shows Brown boring in behind a cross arm defense similar to Ken Nortons or Archie Moores. The Chip footage is the most revealing in my opinion. Chip led for the first five rounds or so but begins to wear down and Darcy takes him out. The KO is not shown in the official film but I have a picture taken just after the KO of Chip being picked up off the canvas and he is in bad shape. The Clabby was another that was inconclusive to me. Clabby was really to small in my opinion. More of a light middleweight or welterweight (much as Fritz Holland who beat Darcy) Clabby was just not aggressive enough in the film to be given points. Its not so much that Darcy was looking impressive its that Clabby was just not throwing enough. I dont recall him ever really being hurt or anything. Kind of an ugly fight. The Dave Smith fight is a sort of throw away fight. Smith was finished at that point of his career. Darcy even admitted that he had no business in the ring. Smith was also very close to Darcy and acting as his head trainer. Pretty much a glorified sparring session until Darcy decides to end it which he probably could have at any time.

 

Mcvey... the fact you recognise your faults at punctuating, suggest a higher potential of improvement. Good luck with it.

The fact you are NOT my mate is of little consequence to me.

Re: Klompton, the exchanges have been enjoyable, to say the least. Often these echanges entice others to dip a little deeper into the record books... Personally, I suggest I've gained a better insight through the banter.

 

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz......... like a broken record, it goes on and on and on and......... the same ******ed anti-Darcy **** for years and years and years an......................... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ