Poll.. Who do you rate higher p4p. Roberto Duran or Muhammad Ali?

What are you on about, what has this got to do with who wins??? What ever you say about Duran P4P he beats Ali.

P4P he is probably Ali's worst nightmare.

 

It's got nothing to do about who wins, it was just a comparison I found interesting.

If he's Ali's worst nightmare p4p is hard to say. As already stated Duran is 1-3 against the best boxers he met (1-4 if you count Hearns, but because of Hearns's punching power I didn't count him).

Don't get me wrong, I think Duran was a great, great fighter with wonderful talent. But I feel he gets too many passes. His conduct in his dealing with Leonard is disgraceful and cowardly. And, like Tyson, he's suddenly shot whenever he looses. I find that kind of pathetic.

He records his greatest win, against Leonard, but in the rematch he's suddenly just a shell of his former self. His perfomance against Hagler is hailed as great, but when Hearns blasts him out in the next fight he's suddenly past it. Same thing with Barkley, when Leonards beats Duran in the very next fight he's a shot figheter.

BS, all of it. No more, no less.

 

Had this been at lightweight and Duran been in his prime and focused then you may have had a point. Duran was totaly dominant at his natural weight, unified his division. He then jumped a division and beat a top 3 welter of all time. At this point it is common knowledge that Duran went a little out of control partying etc etc. None the less he beats Cuevas and then Davey Moore who while not a great fighter was decent, and a big strog light middle. He then challenges Hagler who again is a dead cert top 3 all time middle weight and runs him close, in fact had the fight been 12 rounds (and it should) he would have won thus causing Hagler to be stripped of one of his belts.

Then....at the age of 37 he beats Barkley who is a BIG, STRONG middleweight and in doing so proves his heart by taking massive punches and coming through late to win.

Other great performances as an old man include Pazienza and Camacho.

These are the reasons that Duran is so great, anybody that doubts this need to see him at lightweight where he is quite simply a different man to the one that mixed it with some of the greatest fighters at higher weights weights when he was old and unfocused. In his prime he was the perfect fighter he coul fight for 15 rounds like Henry Armstrong, He could knock you out in the 15th same as the 1st, you could not hit him because of great head movement, he was agression personified.

 

Duran didn't unify the L/W title until '78.. and never defended the 'unified' titles. Heading into his 11th pro season.

Naturally moving to welter, fair enough, he handed SRL a defeat in SRL's 3rd year as a pro... yet faded from there. IMO, his toughness, and the calibre of men he faught is second to few... In a lot of ways, his durability, fierce courage and crowd pleasing style certainly elevates him into the top 15 p4p...

Still hard to rate him close to the top 5, which is the domain of Ali, Robinson, Louis, Armstrong and Pep..

 

I think its of little consequence when Roberto got both belts because the two main guys who held the other title during his reign he had already convincingly beaten...Ishimatsu was one of Roberto's earliest defences and Guts won the title 6 months after losing to Duran.
He held it for over 2 years until DeJesus dethroned him, about 2 years after Duran had knocked out Esteban in their 2nd encounter. He hung on to it for 18 months until Roberto relieved him of the title.

There was really never any doubt who the man was at lightweight when Duran was around. And by the time he unified there was no one left to defend against really.

 

I think you are in the minority here. Duran is far better than top 15. Have you seen any him in his prime?

 

Ali got wins on
Frazier
Foreman
Quarry
Liston
lyle
most house hold name fighters.Duran got leonard.And other talent but not as famous as those guys.

 

Chuck Wepner and Scott LeDoux were borderline household names of their time. Does that mean that beating them makes you better pound for pound than beating a Sammy Langford or Charley Burley?

 

I can not argue your point. IMO, Duran battles with Benny Leonard as claiment to the finest L/W in history.

My comment is based on the FACT he only secured the 'unified' titles in '78. This was not a down put for Duran. I know his resume quite well. A simple clarification was my reasoning for the words.

Post SRL, his reputation was based on the toughness of himself, those he faught and the quality of the engaging encounters. The hype, build up and finances involved in his 80's bouts were legendary. The results were somewhat less than graceful, or worthy of accolades. Going the distance with great names enshrinshes him in legend regardless.

I dont wish to sound discrediting, suffice to say, his best years were '72 thru '81. After those years, he remained well established as worthy opponent to all, offering memorable battles... taking a version of the M/W crown from the rock ape, Iran Barkley...

I dont bout his abilities, yet the best was far behind him.

 

No which is why i did not care to mention any of those guys.

Ali beat champions who were famous for being just that.Champions.I can care
less about the Anna Konakovas of boxing.

If we should base this on wins over talented contenders.
Than lets declare Marciano top # 1 hw of all time.

 

What you are saying makes little sense. Heavyweights are household names very often for other reasons than being great fighters, take Bruno, Cooper for example.

Also Lyle......harly a household name.

There are few people thar aren't boxing fans that could name any fighter below heavyweight, it does not mean that the smaller fighters are inferior to the fat, over hyped heavyweights.

 

In a simple equation:
Ali w= Frazier ,Foreman ,Liston,

Now who were Duran's;Frazier ,Foreman ,Liston,??
Leonard, Hagler, Hearns.
W L L
Plz don't take this as Duran Bashing.He is my fav fighter alltime.

 

Have you heard of Buchanan, Dejesus, Cuevas, Palamino, Leonard, Hagler, Moore & Barkley

 

Well to put the names you used in your simple Ali equation in Roberto's:

The man Duran won his first world title off of was Buchanan.

The man Roberto beat for his second title was Leonard.

And the man who handed Duran his first defeat was DeJesus.

From 1964 to 1976 Ali was 5-1 against his three opponents

From 1972 to 1984 Duran was 4-2.....

There is little difference; Ali's statistical record is slightly more impressive, but Duran's best win in the period(LeonardI) is more impressive in a pound for pound sense.

So the tie break is overall opposition, and Duran IMO, is ahead there.