Greater Heavyweight - HOLMES or LEWIS ?

Lewis has the better resume and foght and beat better fighters than Holmes did. Holmes era was very bad for Heavyweights.

 

Holms never unified, and there were only two belts, but King didn't want him to.
He fought a lot of Ali beaten Euros...and King did hype a good fight....A lot of Who's....and I was there.....
Yes he had a great jab, but he fought a lot of nobodies,and was not respected for that.......


What sort of Champ fights a Ossie Ocasio 13-0
Witherspoon 15-0
Frazier 10-0* stripped for that
IBF lets him fight more kiddies.
Smith 14-1
Bey 14-0
Williams 16-0
They hadn't even had 20 fights.
He got stripped of his title for fighting kiddies, and the IBF let him fight more kiddies.

 

1. Ali
2. Louis
3. Lewis
4. Holmes

Lewis has the stronger resume, ducked no one, was only denied a longer heavyweight reign by boxing politics, and is probably #2 all time H2H. Holmes had a longer reign, but as others have pointed out, didn't unify and fought in a poor heavyweight era

 

I would rate Lewis ahead of Holmes but it is close. Lewis fought in a tougher era and beat every man he ever stepped into the ring with. The only other Heavyweight to have that accomplishment is Rocky Marciano.

 

I don't have much of a problem with people ranking Lewis higher. I have Holmes 4th and Lewis 5th. I find their achievements to be similar in stature overall. I favor Holmes head to head, and place him a step above.

 

Occasio beat Jimmy Young twice, or Larry would have fought Young.

 

Lewis maybe top 3 if he beat a peak Tyson, Holyfield or Bowe. He never, Bowe or his manager chickened out, Tyson was peak in the 80s, 90s is not a real Tyson and the 2000+ version was a joke. Holyfield was the best he beat. Bruno was ok not good and he outpointed him before the stoppage. Lewis is overrated and came at the right time as a Marciano. Good fighters but not the best.

 

The same case can be made for most of the men Tyson fought, Holmes fought, Louis fought, Liston, Frazier, and others?

We are comparing him to Holmes here so Lewis's reume dont look that bad compared to him. Holmes never unified (I dont care about stupid excuses), he did not beat anyone that was as tough as lewis fought, and head to head Lewis would beat him.

People here give Holmes's Jab way too much appreciation. I mean it was great but it was not the best. I think Liston and Lewis's jabs were just as effective only had more power.

 

I have them ranked next to each other either 4-5 or 3-4 depending on the day. In any event, I don't have a problem with anyone picking either one ahead of the other. I'm actually a huge Lewis fan and I think having to defend him all the time made me a bigger fan, but ..I've always thought Holmes was an outstanding fighter..and if anyone could have beaten a prime focused Lewis on a h2h basis, Holmes would be my pick. Career wise it's also close. Holmes never had the losses, but I don't think his opposition was as good. Certainly Lewis fought more bangers than Holmes. Anyway, today I'm picking Lewis, 6 months ago I picked Holmes..go figure.

 

Spinks 10-2-2 and was KO'd in 1 by Coetzee

 

I had to leave Spinks out in he was once World Champ...with 7 fights.
But no one seems to agree that Holms fought too many prospects that were hyped to being contenders.

I found it stupid that Ali was allowed to fight Spinks.

Would Anyone have let Lewis get away with fighting prospects for the Championship?

 

If he had defended 3-4 times a year they may have. But when you fight only one, sometimes two times a year, you better do it against good opposition. Sadly, this is often far from the case.

 

I have them 3 & 4 and am not suprised by either how high everyone seems to rank the pair or how close the poll is.

 

I think some of you guys have to dig out some Larry Holmes fights rather than just vote with your head up your ass.

Holmes was a superior fighter/boxer, better movement of body & foot, threw his punches faster & crisper, could take the better punch & dont forget, only Joe Louis had more defences by FOUR fights & only Marciano had a longer unbeaten record by ONE fight... throw in Lewis prime KO losses to McCall & Rahman & even the common opponent named Ray Mercer if you like but really there is no need.

Rocky makes a lot of top 10 lists based mainly on his 49-0....
Louis is constantly ranked 1 or 2 largely (tho his skills were A+ too) due to his amount of defences (25)....

Holmes is a man that has more or less did BOTH in his career, a career that he wasnt appreciated for because he followed Ali on to the stage (beating him didnt help much either).... how hard must it have been to keep on winning & performing in the way Holmes did without any real support & knowing that most fans at best disliked you ?

Holmes was greater than Lewis & its not even a huge debate to me.

 

You have to look at the context of Lewis's career to appreciate it:

1991 - steps up to fight Mason a 35-0 top 6 contender in only his second year as a pro, ends Masons career. Also beats up on old ex titlist Weaver (amazing physique but past it), ex cruser titlist McCrory, ex contender Biggs

1992 - destroys top4 rated Rudduck in 2 rounds, Rudduck was favourate to beat Lennox and given decent odds to topple the Bowe/Holyfield winner. This win is on par or better than Dempsey-Willard, Tyson-Spinks/Berbick, Liston-Patterson. Bowe then won't fight Lennox
1993 - takes out top5 rated Bruno, an underrated win. Then dominates ex-titlist Tucker
1994 - Just 2 stay busy fights AND DISASTER for Lennox and the division, McCall tags him with the perfect right hand, the rest is history
1995 - Dominates and KOs Top 6 rated Morrison
1996 - only 1 fight against Mercer a solid top10 guy, a tough close bruising war, Lewis fairly took this 1

Tyson ducks Lennox and drops his WBC Belt in order not to face him

1997 - McCall - Lewis cautiously dominated until McCall started to cry, not the grandstand climax of redemption but Lewis made him quit
Akiwande - underrated win, semi-unification as Akiwande was the WBO titlist, Henry was 32-1-0. Another that Lennox couldn't get the grandstand finnish in as Akiwande didnt want to get hit and hugged worse than Ruiz, DQ win
Golota - Many had Golota as number 1 in the world after coming out on top and retiring Riddick Bowe. KO'd in 1, HUGE Win, vastly underrated win
1998 - Briggs - Lennox becomes the Linear HW Champ, exciting KO win against a young powerful 30-1-0
Mavrovic - Keep busy fight against a 27-0 Euro Champ
1999 - Holyfield 1 - the unification fight Lennox wanted for years but was avoided. Holyfield is ofcourse top2 HW, P4P and an ATG. He wins 9-3 for most but is robbed with a draw in 1 of the worst big fight robberies
Holyfield 2 - wins 8-4 against Holyfield

Allot is made of Holyfield been old at 37, but Lennox was 34 himself in the second fight and past his physical prime, thats only 3years between them, Lennox wanted it years before (Bowe/Holyfield/Tyson) but wasnt granted the opportunity

2000 - Lennox already starts talking about retirement
Grant 31-0 Grant is seen as the heir apparent, Lenny ko's him in 2 possibly ruining him?
Botha - KO2 against an ex-titlist
Tua - shutout against 1 of the most exciting KO artists since Tyson, Tua ko'd future titlist Ruiz in 1, Maskeev in 11, Rahman in 10, arguably beat Ibeaubuchi in a war and would destroy former champ Moorer in 1. Another huge win
2002
Rahman 1 - underprepared and fighting at HIGH ALTITUDE (it should be noted how much harder competiting at Altidude is for an athlete), Lennox is looking exhausted and is KO'd, nearly 36yo it looks like it maybe over
Rahman 2 - sensational KO to regain the title at 36yo
2002
Tyson - Huge money against an ATG. Tyson is lated called washed up BUT he is younger than Lennox. He also was on a winning run that had scalps like Golota, Botha, Norris, Savarese (deserved a win over Foreman, beat Douglas, Lance Whitaker and was 39-3). A much better fight than powder puff Byrd could offer
Vitali Klitchko - future WBC and Ring Champion stopped at the age of 37 (nearly 38). Unnessarily controversal, the cut stoppage was fair, Lennox was landing the bigger more damaging shots and coming on strong in the final 2 rounds of the fight where Vitali was hanging on for dear life.

Retirement - Lenny did look old and way past prime and calls it a day. In truth the only reason he didnt hang em up in 2002 was because he wanted another mega payday against Tyson

In Summary, Lennox fought everyone he could fight from 1992-2003, cleaned out the division, fought 2 ATGs, destroyed and shutout contenders ranked in the top3, fought and beat unbeaten challengers and avenged all his defeats. He also fought for a Vacant Title, WBC Champ, WBO Champ, Linear Champ before unifying with the WBA/IBF Champ and is 1 of the few to regain his title TWICE. 1 of only 3 men to retire as champion

What more could Lennox have done other than being complacent against 2 HUGE Punchers

And Holmes resume and achievements severely pale in comparison to Lennox.