Of the Black heavyweights of the 1920's could any defeat Dempsey?

My point is that Dempsey wrecked Fulton a six foot six boxer/ puncher who had allready stopped those mentioned before he met Dempsey.According to you Dempsey only met midgets and overgrown oafs.You have taken up a part of Pontius's post but no matter Tunney gave Greb a hiding ,Greb said I won't fight you again Gene ,you are too big and too tough. I know you have done a lot of research on Greb , K but do you seriously think he would have beaten Dempsey?
I'm not arguing that Wils deserved a shot either but according to you Dempsey must have been afraid to go out of the house in case Wills was waiting for him!
I HAVE NO WAY TO PROVE IT,BUT I THINK DEMPSEY WOULD HAVE FOUGHT WILLS ,AND I THINK HE WOULD HAVE BEATEN HIM ,PROBABLY BY KO . Thats my opinion .you think Dempsey was scared shitless of Wills ,Greb, Norfolk,and Pontius thionks he avoided a 38 year old Langford and a 40 year old Jeanette. I think both of you hate Dempsey's guts and your objectivity had flown out of the window.I think I'll buy your book on Greb, to see if it is a warts and all portrait or a hero worship job,and I rate Greb in the top 3 p4p.
Its stimulating sparring with you and CP, you present good arguments ,but haven't won me over.

 

A lot of peopleat the time seem to have thought Gibbons a greater threat than Greb (perhaps misguidedly). Gene Tunney for example said that he was releived when Greb defeated Gibbons because Gibbons was the one guy he didnt want to fight. I dont think Dempseys team were mad keen on him fighting Gibbons either.

It should also be noted that Gibbons was for a significant period the No2 challenger behind only Wills and a Wills Gibbons bout is one that perhaps should have been.

 

Ring magazine did not produce rankings for 1923 but the 1924 rankings would reflect events in 1923.

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1924

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4. Charley Weinert
5. Quintin Romero Rojas
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9. Jim Maloney
10. Erminio Spalla

1925

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5. Bud Gorman
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8. Bob Fitzsimmons
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10. Jim Maloney
11. Harry Persson
12. King Solomon
13. Johnny Risko
14. Ray Neuman
15. Jim Keeley

1926

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4. Jim Maloney
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8. Harry Persson
9. Knute Hansen
10. Johnny Risko
11. Sully Montgomery
12. Sandy Seifert
13. Jack DeMave
14. Monte Munn
15. Arthur De Kuh

 

Its interesting that in 1924 Gibbons was ranked #2 despite Greb having defeated Gibbons as well as the #s 3 thru 6. In fact in his fourth fight with Gibbons (the title eliminator) His fight with Weinert, his fight with Rojas, and his two fights with Renault, he barely lost a round...

Another interesting fact, and I may be mistaken about this one, but I believe at least that first year of ratings that Tex Rickard was the one who came up with those ratings. Even Tex, who a lot of people blame for blocking a Wills fight (I dont, there were plenty of promoters who could have and would have put that fight on), knew Wills was numero uno.

 

Hi Klompton,

Excellent post. In regard to this discussion and the Dempsey
style VS the Harry Wills style - Does anyone know if Bill Brennan
had a boxing style similar to Wills? I know Brennan gave Dempsey a tough fight.

Also, Gunboat Smith was a long range type of boxer and gave Dempsey
a tough time.

I think that Wills could given Jack a rough time. Wills handled Firpo
quite well in their match.

Grebfan9
www.firstroundboxing.com

 

A year may have been a long time but Gibbons did absolutely nothing in that year to garner a title shot.

 

To be fair he had 8 wins over this period, mostly over mediocre competition, but that included a shutout win over Billy Miske.

His only loss was a DQ against Miske who he had been beating handily.

 

If Dempsey fought Will in 1920 or so who knows ... to dismiss Wills as another big lumbering guy is a joke ... he may very well have taken Dempsey's head off ...

 

I hope that you dont think that I am dismising Wills.

 

I say again, he had done nothing to garner a title shot. Wins over nobodys and a shot ex title challenger do not a legit contender make.

 

1. The "Firpo should've won by DQ" thing is annoying and untrue. A fighter can't be reasonably DQ'ed for something a third party he's unaffiliated with does. At worst, you could call it a No Contest. If Fan Man had landed on top of Bowe and knocked him out, should Holyfield have been DQ'ed? Of course not.
2. While Firpo did come close to beating Dempsey, if you're being fair, you should admit it was a rather flukish incident.
3. I believe Tunney and Sharkey were at least as good as Wills with less-favorable styles for Jack, and a past-prime Dempsey still knocked Sharkey out and nearly finished Tunney as well.
4. As this is an entirely hypothetical fight, it's open to debate whether Wills would have had a good chance against Dempsey. Joe Frazier was the best fighter George Foreman had ever fought to that date, but it didn't mean Joe had a chance! Some people believe Wills had a style which would have suited Dempsey kindly, and I do think they have a case.

 

1. It certainly was controversial, though. It wasn't his fault - but it happened anyway.

2. How so? He knocked him down twice, arguably three times. Also, does a fluke mean that we can forget about it? You're not really big on Lennox Lewis, and i doubt that you dismiss the Rahman losses as flukish accidents. Flukes happen in boxing (especially at heavyweight), but that doesn't mean we should forget about them.

Wills shut Firpo out. Maybe not as spectacular, but he got the job done and that's what counts. Ali-Lyle was a stinker but he beat him more convincingly than Foreman, who was a razor's edge away from being stopped. Yes, i realise that Ali was down on the scorecards, but that was more due to him laying on the ropes and doing **** all than anything else.


3. Wills is a much more accomplished fighter than Sharkey and Tunney. It's not even close.

4. And that is based on absolutely nothing because there is no film of Wills during his prime. The assumption that he is slow because he was big is laughable. Tyson and Ali were 210lbs too and they were speed demons. To dismiss Wills' chances when he is by far the best opponent Dempsey would've ever faced, is downright ridiculous.


Besides, Joe Frazier had accomplished the greatest feat of his life (beating Ali) and more focused on his musical career than on boxing, as was evident by the spare tire around his waiste, when he met Foreman. I will add that i don't think Frazier would've beaten Foreman, but it sure makes things look worse than they are.

 

just like tyson in his short but true prime he was the most dominate heavy of (all time) ko,n the **** out of allmost any heavyweight of any era

 

I would second this. Wills was clearly better than all the other contenders and also much better than the old, fat Willard. Anyone who is certain Dempsey wins is just blowing smoke.