Why didnt Wills fight Greb,Tunney,Gibbons,Godfrey?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mcvey, Jan 28, 2009.


  1. OLD FOGEY

    OLD FOGEY Boxing Junkie Full Member

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  2. OLD FOGEY

    OLD FOGEY Boxing Junkie Full Member

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  3. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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  4. janitor

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  5. OLD FOGEY

    OLD FOGEY Boxing Junkie Full Member

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  6. klompton

    klompton Boxing Addict banned

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    I dont think Ive ever written that Greb called out Wills. He may have but (and this is without me checking notes) it was probably more in the line of "Ill fight Wills, Gibbons, Firpo, Brennan, and anyone else in order to face Dempsey." As far as I know he never actively lobbied for a match with Wills and I have more than one direct quote in interviews stating that hes the best heavyweight in the world regardless of color. He basically felt that there were two men in the world who would without a doubt beat Dempsey, Wills and himself. He was smart enough to know that Wills would never get his shot and if the public wanted a white a contender then Greb felt like he was logically it and I have to agree. Until 1925 Greb proved himself without a doubt to be the best man to face Dempsey by virtue of all the top light heavies and heavies he beat and usually very easily.
     
  7. OLD FOGEY

    OLD FOGEY Boxing Junkie Full Member

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  9. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I'm sorry you find my question foolish ,in return I find your answer toatally illogical.Wills does not fight Greb and Gibbons because they are in different weight classes to him and they would not fight him. WHAT EVIDENCE HAVE YOU THAT THEY REFUSED TO FIGHT HIM?.Both men fought and beat ranked HEAVYWEIGHTS, why would he not fight them? Wills had no problems fighting a 5 foot 9in Kid Norfolk 6 inches shorter and 36 lbs lighter,so why shouldnt he fight Gibbons or Greb?
     
  10. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Both beat plenty of heavies.Tunney beat.
    Burke
    Foley
    Spalla
    Herman
    Renault
    Thomkpson
    Clifford
    Madden
    Weinert
    Risko.
    Tunney nevr weighed much more than Greb when he beat him and only half a pound more than Carpentier when he beat him.
    Gibbons beat
    Herman
    Moore
    Bloomfield
    Madden
    Flynn
    Roper
    Meehan
    and MIske.which I think is a big scalp.
    It's funny Dempsey gets castigated for not fightitng Greb ,yet Wills wouldnt fight him because he was too small .:patsch
     
  11. OLD FOGEY

    OLD FOGEY Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    "Why shouldn't he fight Gibbons or Greb?"

    You seem to be implying that these fights were not made because Wills did not want them to be made. Can you produce any evidence that either of these men sought a fight with Wills? Without evidence that Gibbons or Greb really were lobbying for a fight with Wills and/or that there was a great public clamour for such a bout, this is just sort of off the wall. Frankly, off the result, Norfolk should never have been allowed into the ring with Wills. He was because it was one of the few good paydays open to either of them.

    Other than Miske, who was the best heavyweight Gibbons defeated?
     
  12. OLD FOGEY

    OLD FOGEY Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    "Wills wouldn't fight him"

    Give evidence of this. When was Wills offered a contract to fight Greb? How much of a purse was he offered? Who was talking up this fight? Who was the promoter?

    "Miske was a big scalp."

    Okay, but he had been beaten by Greb and Norfolk twice each.

    And one other question--How many black heavyweights did Tunney, Greb, and Gibbons defeat? Were there any?

    One of the most impressive names on Tunney's list would be Jack Renault, but Tunney did not defeat him. The referee stopped the fight and declared it a no contest because the two men were not fighting.
     
  13. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    If you can find any post that I made that says Wills refused to fight any of those named ,please post it .I simply asked what I think is a pertinent question.Wills refused to fight Tunney for the chance at Dempsey ,Paddy Mullins Wills manager gambled that public pressure would force Kearns and Dempsey's hand into giving him a straight shot at the title.Added to the puzzle was the fact that by then Wills was aging and Tunney was then a real threat to anyone.Wills probably did not want to fight Godfrey ,who did want to get him in the ring ,but the financial returns would probably not have made such a risk viable.
     
  14. OLD FOGEY

    OLD FOGEY Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    You are assuming that Wills would have gotten a shot at Tunney and if he defeated Tunney he would have gotten a shot at Dempsey, and that in fact the Tunney fight was actually on the table. I don't think any of that is true or even plausible. Wills had waited seven years. He knew time was running out and so it was. He wanted Dempsey.

    "Mullins gambled that public pressure, etc"

    Well, Wills had already fought two eliminations without result. Other than public pressure, what weapon did Wills have. If Wills had fought and beaten Tunney in 1926, Dempsey would probably have defended against SHARKEY in 1927 with the promise that Wills might get a shot at the winner.
     
  15. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I'm assuming nothing I am stating the case as put by Randy Roberts in his biography of Dempsey.