Chavez Vs Taylor 1 - The Stoppage and Aftermath

Perfect stoppage, and anyone whining only need look at Taylor's inability to answer Steele's simple questions. All he had to do was audibly mutter a simple "yes" and he was going onward IMO.

 

..............By saying he "might" have been able to continue, you automatically open the situation up to guesswork, leaving an argument for both sides. So no, if one is using those words, in no way, shape or form can one say without reservation that the stoppage was absolutely premature.

The very fact that we usually have a 50-50 split on the issue absolves Steele, I think.

 

Tabin put yourslef in Steeles shoes

you have a guy hurt real bad. you ask him if hes ok and he nods his head realy weakly not even looking at you and dosent say anything.

would you take the chance of his life that he might be ok or would you stop it so definitly dosent get hurt

 

A lot of people lost money on that fight (I was one of them), and were very bitter.

I once was in a pub, that had a fight with Steele refereeing, and when he was announced, everyone in the pub started to boo. I asked my friend why he was booing, and he said because everyone else was!

The reality is many who complain about this stoppage either lost money, were not even born when the fight happened, or were not into boxing at the time.

 

Combine the sustained action of Morales/Barrera, the fierce competition of Ward/Gatti, the significance of Leonard/Hearns, the intensity of Holyfield/Tyson, the combined skill level of Jones/Hopkins, the controversy of Tunney/Dempsy, and the ending of Corrales/Castillo....and you have Chavez/Taylor....one of the greatest boxing matches of all time.

20 observations regarding Chavez/Taylor....for what it's worth.

1. Chavez rendered Taylor unfit to continue within the 12 round limit....how much time remained or who was percieved to be ahead on the judges scorecards are non-factors.

2. Wether by his corner's instruction or by his own decision, Taylor unwisely went toe to toe with Chavez....terrible strategy....after all, the guy in the other corner wasn't Freddie Pendleton....it was Julio Cesar Chavez...."The lion of Culiacan."

3. Taylor didn't respond to Steele's questions....at all....some people state that Taylor nodded to Steele to signal that he was ready to continue, but that never happened....there was no nod....there was nothing....Taylor never even acknowleged Steele's presence until after Steele had waved the fight off.

4. Instead of showboating in the 12th round, Taylor should have kept his hands up, his chin down, and stayed away from Chavez.

5. Taylor should have held on or run instead of rushing Chavez after walking into a right hand and being stunned in the 12th round.

6. The knockdown occured with about 20 seconds remaining in the round, so somehow about 18 seconds elapsed between the knockdown and the time of the stoppage....Taylor had plenty of time to get himself together if at all possible.

7. The fight was closer than many people believe....many of Taylor's shots were glancing, blocked, or missed altogether....I had it 107-102 for Taylor going into the 12th round....and with a 10-8 round for Chavez in the 12th, I would've ended up with a score of 115-112 for Taylor....a decisive edge for Taylor in theory.....but a hottly contested match in practice.

8. The timekeeper doesn't always sound the bell at exactly 3 minutes....sometimes rounds go as long as 30 seconds extra....plenty of time for Chavez to continue beating Taylor....although we saw similar timekeeping mistakes earlier in this very fight, Chavez not having time to get across the ring and engage Taylor is a non-factor regardless....wether it be from a legal blow or someone else's mistake, how Taylor might have been hurt worse doesn't matter....he had already sustained too much punishment.

9. If anyone cares to place blame, they can blame Lou Duva for getting up on the ring apron and possibly distracting an already stunned Taylor....although I've never seen footage showing Duva anywhere in the picture until after the fight is waved off and he enters the ring and stops Steele from attending to Taylor.

10. If Steele had given Taylor the benefit of the doubt(and no one gives you anything in this business), it would have been Chavez who was robbed of a hard earned victory.

11. Many people seem to assume that the right hand that Chavez landed was the shot that started the whole controversy, and that it was a lucky shot....not even close to accurate....Chavez knew what he was doing and might have ended the affair sooner if he'd tried.

12. The fight probably should have been stopped sooner, taking into consideration the effect that the beating had on Taylor....most probably by Taylor's corner or the ringside physician.

13. Chavez won the rematch without controversy....I know....Taylor wasn't the same fighter for the rematch, but he was doing pretty well before he was stopped....even though he inexplicably attempted to employ the same strategy that didn't work the first time.

14. People seem to be influenced by the seemingly biased HBO broadcasters, who had Taylor winning the first 9 rounds in one-sided fashion, at one point suggested that Chavez was about to be stopped, and during the 12th round essentially suggested that Chavez had no chance of winning because he lacked the skills to do so.

15. Taylor was holding himself up with both arms on the ropes as Steele was trying to determine wether he was fit to continue....so Steele actually could have continued counting....Taylor pulled himself up using the ropes, rose at about the count of six ,and held himself up with the ropes for several seconds while Steele was trying to get his attention.

16. The referee isn't the timekeeper....to suggest that Steele should have known how much time remained in the round so that he could be better prepared to grant Taylor 2 seconds is even more proposterous than suggesting that Steele should have known that the timekeeper had made a mistake by ending an earlier round prematurely and signaled the fighters to keep boxing for 30 more seconds after the bell had rung.

17. No matter what position Lou Duva maintains now, after the 11th round he told Taylor to go out and fight hard in the last round....and he shouldn't neccessarily be ashamed of that....Duva was ringside and met with Taylor between each round, so he knew that in reality the fight was pretty close, and with the ever present possibility of nonsensical scoring, Duva understanably wanted Taylor to win as many rounds as possible.

18. During the post-fight interview Taylor told Larry Merchant in regards to the stoppage "I don't understand it. We had this thing in the basket."....if Taylor was so sure that he had the fight won, then it wouldn't have made much sense to slug with Chavez in the last round....although I guess that people will attribute that to Talyor's having been a "Philadelphia fighter"....but perhaps Taylor would have been better served if Duva had taught him to be an intelegent fighter instead....or if he hadn't been handled by Duva at all.

19. Although the Taylor camp made accusations directed at Steele, no corruption or wrongdoing of any kind was ever uncovered....Steele had always done a good job as a referee....to attack his compitence, credentials, professionalism, or moral character isn't focusing on the actual factors that culminated in the result....Steele did seem to be in a hurry to wave the fight off....and it could easily be interpereted as bias in favor of Chavez....but I think that Steele believed that Chavez had pulled a win from the jaws of defeat and wanted to stop the fight before the bell rang because the rules stated that a fighter couldn't be saved by the bell in any round except for the 12th....he did act fast though.

20. Steele, one of the best referees in the sport at the time, was in the ring with the two fighters and he thought that Taylor was taking too much of a beating....and with the benefit of hindsight he was right, whatever we think of the stoppage....if anything, Steele seems to feel guilty that he didn't direct Taylor to the ringside physician at some point, or even stop the fight sooner.

Given the incredible circumstances that unfolded in the 12th round....the knockdown, the time running out, the crowd roaring, the corners yelling instructions and climbing onto the ring apron....Steele did a good job....maybe even a better job than most would have. It's a shame that Taylor put forth such an effort and didn't get the win that he came so close to earning, but Chavez stopped him fair and square.

 

The stoppage was right. At the time, I felt that Taylor was robbed and like a few others began to question Steele's impartiality - particuarly when it came to Don King fighters.

Looking at it again, you can see that while Meldrick was winning rounds, he was losing a fight. With the benefit of about 20 years of hindsight, we can now see that fight as Taylor's highpoint, he left a lot of himself in the ring that night and was never the same again. It's also when Chavez began to look mortal. The hype around Chavez at the time in The Ring, KO etc. was massive. With Tyson having his problems, he was King's mealticket and that may have well have had an effect on the scoring of the Whitaker fight later, but not this stoppage.

 

i agree with the stuff in the blue and disagree with the red


good post thoguh

heres why i disagree with thme

6. The Knockdown happend with 20 secons left on HBOs clock but on the officail one that mattered it was nearer 15 seconds left. Also the stoppage was recorded at 9 seconds on HBO's clock but 2 on the officails so you have to go by the officails. Taylor did recieve a proper count and had about 2 seconds to answer Steele

7. The fight was closer because Chaves won the last 3 on my card and the last round if it finished 10-8 on mine.
But Taylor still should have won if it went to the cards.

8. The timekeeper made only 1 mistake in the fight and that was giving them 15 seconds extra rest some time in the middle rounds.

9. Lou Douva shouted something from the corner but it is the fighters responsibility to answer the ref. Taylor should have been paying attention to Steele.

12. Sure Taylor had bad eyes but i think you could have only really stopped it in the 12th and in a world championship fight he should have been allowed to continue with it as he could still see.

14. I had my scorecard the same as the HBO people and wasnt influenced by them. I felt the fight was still competitive i just liked Taylors work better. As for Chavez getting stopped in the mid rounds that was a joke he was never in trouble.

 

Taylor got shafted plain and simple, he didn't look too bad, he was tired and on weak legs but he should have been given chance to prove himself. None the less he fought the wrong fight

Why wasn't there an immediate rematch?

 

I believe the referee should not be allowed to even consider the clock in his assessment of whether a fighter is ok or not. It doesn't matter if there is one second left or if the fight is twenty seconds old, the ref should make a decision based purely on what he perceives to be the state of the fighter - he should be thinking about safety only, not the impact of his actions on the result of the fight. Steele was 100% correct to stop the fight.

 

118 - 109??!! Look at Taylor's face at the end. Does he really look like a guy who only lost one round!! No doubt Taylor was ahead, but he wasn't pitching a virtual shutout! C'mon!

 

Watch Hearns vs Barkley or arbachakov vs Kittikassem to see how far steele would go to let the house fighter or his favourite fight on.Such overwhelming generosity for unresponsive fighters who were in a bad way.

If this was Taylor vs some random non-connected contender i tend to think he would have let it go on.Can't prove it, but just a gut feeling.

I think Steele was an excellent ref generally, but he wasn't some harry Gibbs no nonsense type that wouldn't give a damn about who the house favourite or major player was.

That said, i think somethng like Leonard Benitez was a much worse contentious late stoppage.

 

i just liked Taylors work better

i think all the rounds were competitive though so that is why his face was bad

 

Learn how to score a fight before you post in this section in future.

 

how do i ned to score a fight

thats just being offensive Kurgen there is no need

so what i scored a fight bad it is my opinion on the fight you might disagree and so be it im probably wrong

but it was my take on the fight

 

Steele asked TWICE if Taylor was OK. He DIDN'T answer, his face was horribly swollen, he was bleeding, stunned, holding himself up on the ropes and was in NO state to continue. The ONLY controversy is the amount of time left, which is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT to the state he was in, which is the only thing that matters when a ref is considering stopping the fight.