Duran-Leonard I: Devil's Advocate

Duran won nine of the first ten rounds in Montreal against the bigger, younger man. That's the bottom line here, and Montreal is why I rank Duran second only to SSR on a P4P basis. If Roberto induced him into the trenches with mental warfare, then he was also the smarter man.

The real truth is that he had Ray scared shitless, as his early feignting of Leonard into knots demonstrated. Duranimal was able to hurt Ray, something that boxing's Mickey Mouse never reciprocated.

What happened in New Orleans? Roberto ate like a pig after the weigh-in, then had to take a **** in the middle of the action (just as Freddie Brown suggested).

An alternative possibility is that Duran agreed to tank for Dundee and his mob buddies. But in mid match, he said to himself, "Jesus Christ, this ******* isn't hurting me! I'd better do something before I find myself getting bumped off by some Dago hitman!" (Full disclosure: I'm part Wop myself.) Whereupon the infamous "No Mas, No Mas!"

If Duran had replicated his physical condition in Montreal for New Orleans, then he would have gone two for two over Leonard.

 

Simple, Duran is the better fighter, Leonard is best as a boxer and as such are best when they play to their strengths. Leonard thought he could take out an aged Duran who was probably weak at the weight, maybe it was partly 'honour' but he simply thought he could have him out of there too. It backfired big time. Duran was still the better fighter (not boxer), great in range with anyone in front of him. But use your legs and make him move and he can no longer keep up in a game of boxing tag.

Thats what both fights boil down to, its really not that complicated

 

Leonard-Duran I reminds me of Ali-Frazier I.

 

Since when did Leonard constantly engage with his opponents inside for long periods of a fight prior to meeting Duran? Also ask yourself this. Wasn't Leonard giving Duran his best shot at winning with such tactics? If different gameplans were laid out and you picked the best one for him, it wouldn't be the type of strategy he implimented on the night. Even one of the commentators said to his colleague during the first round "Leonard is fighting flat-footed, why?" The press were shocked when they asked Leonard before the fight "How are you going to fight Duran" to which Leonard replied "flat-footed". They obviously thought that Leonard wouldn't stand and get involved with Duran. Natural LW or not, it wasn't the best way to fight him. Thats with the benefit of hindsight or rewinding time back to before the first bell rang.

I'm sure Leonard watched the Palomino fight. If he fought his natural way against Duran in Montreal, as many claim, it was indeed "bad strategy". He had the tools to fight differently, no matter if he wasn't strictly a long range, constant, mover prior to the fight, which is what he became when they fought 5 months later.

Dundee said before the fight, "Leonard will knock out Duran early". Again, this doesn't support the claims that Leonard fought the way himself and Dundee intended. With Duran coming to take it to Leonard from the get-go, all Leonard need to do was catch him as he was coming in, step back, circle, jab, and keep Duran on the outside. I'm not saying constantly move around the perimeter like he did in the rematch, but just engage within arms length and keep it that way. He had the ability to somewhat accomplish this (just a guess), although Duran would have his moments while trying to get where he wanted. Lets say Leonard did KO Duran early, it doesn't necessarily mean he ndeed to engage.

Leonard may well have been faster and packed a punch at the weight to get off with power shots on a regular basis, no question. But with his height and reach, he had the physical tools to combine all of them to his advantage. Thats speed, power, height and reach, thus having the ability to keep things at long range and make things easier for himself.

Leonard was very hesitant at long range against Duran. The feints and counters troubled him. But again, he should have been looking to increase distance, not stand there and let Duran shrink it. His jab was hardly thrown when he was at the range to get off and box behind it.

 

In either fight..did SRL ever really hurt Duran????

 

No he stunned him in the first fight but never badly hurt Roberto.

 

I reckon that had a lot to do with fact that Roberto was slipping and countering very well that night..And also the fact that Duran looked close to getting Leonard out of there on at least one occasion early in the fight which can always change the dynamic of a fight.
The jab was there..it just often wasnt finding the mark..There was a comment during the broadcast that went something like "not many jabs are finding Duran's face". Roberto was matching him that department.

Very early on in that fight the commentators seemed hell bent on admonishing Leonard for trading with Duran..But often seemed to over look the fact that much of that fight was fought at range and it wasnt necessarily what Leonard wasnt doing in that fight, it had a lot do to with what Duran was doing. His footwork in that fight was a thing of beauty, he cut the ring off and forced Ray on to the ropes often, where he would go to work..When on the outside he kept just outside of punching range to offset the speed and size of Leonard.
Im sure at one point the commentators were literally calling Ray flatfooted as he danced away from a Duran attack. Ive never heard the term used so much when calling a fight but Ray often did no more than patiently shuffle around the ring rather than constant, sweeping movements, as you were saying Robbi.

Commentators in the rematch stated "this is the kind of movement that made him so popular in montreal" or something to that affect. Which seems the contradict \a lot of what has been said regarding that fight.
So I have to make my own mind on those fights and I saw an often bewildered Leonard get outboxed and outbrawled in the first fight..Just with a different skillset than what to what most consider "skillful".

Leonard always fit the boxer-puncher mould a little more than a pure boxer, which someone articulated well in another thread the other day..His technical skills were fantastic but he was more than comfortable fighting on the inside and within punching range in every pre-Duran fight I have seen of him.

I reckon if anything Leonard changed his style from his early career in the rematch with Duran...He was moving a lot, which frustrated Roberto but neither guy was landing a whole lot in the second one..I hardly saw much work from either that was effective. I really cant say if Leonard would have been able to keep that for 15 rounds if he had taken that approach in the first fight.

 

I'm not too fond of the excuses that Leonard was lured into a brawl, but they are as valid to me as the excuses made for Duran in the rematch.

I'm perfectly satisfied to see it like this: Leonard, a natural WW boxer-puncher, quite naturally saw no reason to run from the LW Duran in the first fight. But he underestimated Duran, who was the quintessence of hell-on-wheels in that fight, and paid for it. In the rematch Leonard adjusted, and won.

End of story.

 

Agreed.

 

It's not end of story, because you guys are acting as if Duran was anywhere near his best for the rematch when Leonard did switch up his tactics.

What it boils down to is this: For the first fight, both fighters were at their very best, regardless of their tactics. For the rematch, only one fighter was at his best while implying a new strategy against a version of the opponent unable to cope. I think the first fight was a hell of a lot more telling.

 

Surely a fighter of Leonards caliber could have adjusted DURING the first fight if it was that simple?

 

What it comes to down is that I don't buy that Duran was in bad shape for the rematch, anymore than I buy that Leonard was sucked into a stupid fight the first time around. Or I buy it just as much. Anyway you prefer.

 

I agree completely and prefer to take both results at face value. I just don't get how Duran comes out on top in the discussion of these two fights. HE QUIT.

 

people are more forgiving of leonard's loss than Duran's-especially Leonard fans. pretending that Leonard was not really ready for Duran. They arent nearly as forgivng of Duran because it would take away from the accomplishment but the fact is we dont really know what would have happened if Duran came into the rematch in the same condition he was for the first fight.