Duran-Leonard I: Devil's Advocate

I agree. he was already getting his ass handed to him as early as the second round. You would think he had enough time in the remaining 13 rounds to 'adapt' some new game plan. That's what winners do

 

Agreed. This shows that he elected to stand with Duran.

 

Overlooked but very astute comment. Similar to Leonard in the first fight with Duran, Ali wanted to put some hurt on Frazier. While I wouldn't say Ali brawled with Frazier, he certainly was flat footed for long periods of time and was happy to exchange..even left hooks ! Egos got the better of Leonard and Ali in both these fights. These egos were put away for the rematches and both fighters won comfortably. Even great fighters like Ali and Leonard can completely screw up fights by employing the wrong strategy. Although I think on both these ocassions, I think the strategy screw up was forced on them by their egos. But it's still a screw up.

 

For some reason leonard Elected to stand flat feet with Duran ,but he lost a tough 15 round decision fairly. But for some reason Duran apologists cannot seem to accept that Duran simply quit/lost the second fight.

'Duran wasn't prepared' . 'Duran Ate too much'. Duran had a tummy ache'.:roll: The excuses fans make for him quitting the fight are more pathetic than him quitting. In a 1980 Sports Illustrated article ('The Great Belly Ache' I believe) his wealthy supporter Carlos Elata scoffs at the idea that something was wrong with Duran & he prepared not much differently than he had for previous fights.

Trainer Ray Arcel seemed to wanna cry after the fight (it is on youtube) & says he never had a fighter quit on him like that. The poor man pretty much quit training fighters after that & never trained Dura again.(the artice says he trained Holmes once & quit). His other Trainer Freddie Brown says "He just quit".

In the seventh round of the fight(oe of my favorite) Leonard was already in control of Sugar Ray taunted him by poking out his chin & tongue, doing the Ali Shuffle & wound up his right hand bolo punch & jabbed him with the left,etc... Duran could not touch him & was embarassed & quit. This doesn't take away the fact that the man was one of the greatest boxers whom ever lived , but the excuses are for him are laughable.

 

As I said, I don't like excuses for Leonard's loss in Montreal, it's only in hindsight that his tactic looks ill-advised, but when it comes to FOTC, I can say with almost complete conviction that Ali didn't let his ego dictate his tactics. Starting out like he did doesn't seem like such bad idea when you consider that his legs wasn't quite what they had been.

Neither Leonard's nor Ali's tactics were that bad really, it's just that their opponents exceeded their expectations. Frazier had no business coming out all fired up and ready to go in the 6:th after the punches he took in the previous 5 rounds, just like Duran had no business repeatedly slipping Leonard's quick jab and taking his head off with the right. But they did.

 

Well Bokaj, I agree, they did underestimate their opponents, and therefore they chose the wrong strategy. It's still a wrong strategy. I firmly believe that if Leonard had chosen to box, he would have won (not that it would have been easy, I grant you) and the same goes for Ali in his first fight with Frazier. As for the Ali fight, if Ali had the strength to survive the FOTC for 15 rounds and get up after that 15th round KD and finish the fight strong, then he had the leg strength to dance instead of exchange.

 

100% correct. It ain't complicated. There can sometimes be a tendency to overanalyze, which I believe Stonehands is guilty of here.

 

I would say a bit of both. The way the fight panned out had a lot to do with Duran's style and what he brought to the table, no question about that. But Leonard clearly made things easier for him. A lot of Duran's success was down to how well he slipped and countered, as you said. But Leonard was a stationary target for the vast majority of the fight. He never even tried to keep things at long range and box. It's not as if Leonard was boxing, using lateral lovement, and Duran managed to get inside on him. Leonard was hesitant on the outside when Duran charged him, and he stayed put. He never tried to move out of the danger zone and increase the distance between them both on a regular basis.

 

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Looks just like you, Stonehands.

 

Thanks. I like your threads just as much as I like discussing with you, so keep 'em coming.

 

Another one bites the dust.

 

leonard should have known better than to meet duran in the trenches. Regardless of duran being the smaller man he was just better at fighting in close.

Leonard put up a good fight, but could have won if he fought his normal fight. It wouldn't have been easy though, because he did this in the 2nd fight and contrary to popular belief the fight was fairly close, with duran landing some good punches.