How can 3 men of that stature be so wrong?

Hey, no doubt Calzaghe is one of the best British fighters ever.

He's just not Lewis. Joe never lost, but he also never fought as many rated opponents or achieved as much. For some people the fact he's undefeated seems to be held up as the be-all and end-all.

Sadly, too many years wasted defending the little-regarded WBO strap against too often routine opponents in his home country. There were good opponents in there but not enough.

The last 3 years have been wonderful for Joe's career, but there does seem to be a lot of convenient ignoring of the 'wilderness years' that he endured. I simply can't just ignore that.

 

I think it can be argued. The man achieved alot. 2 weight world champ and best 168 ever.

 

But Myweather beat a ton of tremedous fighters, in form.... Calzaghe beat Hopkins, Eubank and Jones... All of them were many years past their prime... theres no comparison.

 

Not meaningless.

They were truly exceptional fighters who would almost always be favoured...

Whereas there were fights out there that Joe wouldn't have been favourite to win. He didn't take them... whatever the reasons.

Hatton has lost one fight he wasn't favoured in but he had the stones to chase that fight, and he's doing it again with Pacquaio.

It doesn't make him a BETTER fighter to lose these fights of course; but it does allow us to form a better assessment of him, because he's faced the very best of his peers, at their best. Joe didn't.

His 3 biggest wins all have question marks against them IMO. The benchmarks of his 'greatness' SHOULD have been set against RJJ and Hopkins years ago.

And as a result I think that doubt will always remain.

 

Thats because you`ve been watching boxing longer than a few months unlike most of the Calzaghe jocks on here that rave about his undefeated record.

 

The title as best 168lb`der ever is a bit spurious. He reigned in a division that was enormously thin on talent. Refused to fight Sven Ottke. And arguably although Jones stay at 68 was very brief an argument could be made for Jones on the basis of his dominance and talent alone. That being said 68 is a relatively new division sandwiched between two glamour divisions.

 

don't start on about ottke as a very good offer had been made to ottke which he turned down, you might say joe should have gone to germnay but the robberies that have gone down their with ottke involved don't make that a good place to go.

 

Calzaghe vs Ottke would be an interesting fight.

I would edge toward Calzaghe, on the basis that Ottke has little power to get the respect of Joe.

However - Joe would look **** in beating him. He is (was rather) much less effective having to chase an opponent..... granted Ottke was not on Hopkins's level, Calzaghe always fought best either in a brawl or on the retreat. Against Ottke it wouldn't be either.

 

On the whole i agree with this post .. Theres something about Calzaghe i just dont like, ive tried to pick his record apart over the years but that shows more about me than Joe .. I dont know what it is about Calzaghe that pisses me off so much .. The facts though speak for themselves, he was unbeaten and at the end of his career beat a few decent fighters ..
I hate the way he was protected for most of his career up until Lacey .. I hate the fact that people talk about Kessler as if he's some kind of cross between Hagler and Leonard .. I hate the fact that he stepped up to face Hopkins and Jones when they had both faded badly. But having said all that Joe Calzaghe beat everyone he faced and that has to be respected ..
I think Calzaghe and Lewis are at the top table of British boxers past and present but neither of them had to face what Hatton had to face when he fought Mayweather .... Im by no means a Hatton fanatic but he's only lost once and there was never a fighter of the standard of Mayweather in Calzaghe's or Lewis's way during they're reigns ....
I'd also like to disagree with your belittling of Holyfield as a 'Former Cruiser', yeah he was a great Cruiser but he was also a brilliant if a little inconsistent heavyweight .. The scared look in Lewis's eyes when Holyfield rallied in that 2nd fight will stay with me forever .. Personally, i think that the 2 versions of Holyfield that was involved in the first 2 Bowe fights would have beaten the ever cautious Lewis but by the time Lewis faced him he'd slowed and he wasnt the highly skilled guy he used to be ..
Tyson was more washed up than Jones when he faced Lewis

 

I'd agree with your analysis of Jones being the best 168 fighter .. He was poetry at this weight but he didnt stay there for long .. A prime Jones wouldnt have any trouble beating Calzaghe, thats how good the 90s Jones was .. Sven Ottke is a total irrelevance, anybody with any sense wouldnt travel to Germany to face him knowing how bent in his favour the officials were ..

 

Hatton and Calzaghe feasted on far more sub par opponents and padded there records more than Lewis ever did. Granted he never faced someone as good Mayweather but not many have and Hatton got completely outclassed by him.

Not that it matters, and it's kind of splitting hairs, but not a chance was Tyson more shot than Jones. Tyson at least looked like he was interested in winning and wasn't simply backing off and covering up. Jones manufactured a path back to the title after being knocked out in consecutive fights to Tarver and Johnson then surviving 12 in a pointless rubber with Tarver.

 

All three have truly great stature as boxers not as knowledgeable people.
Lets face it none of them are likely to be going on mastermind or the krypton factor are they!

Also ask them in 5 years time and they will probably answer differently.

 

Look niether Joe or Ricky are in the top 5 All time British greats

Lennox Lewis, Jimmy Wilde, Ken Buchanan, Jackie Berg, Ted Lewis

Are above both.... If Hatton beats Manny he can be considered for the top 5

 

No, he wouldn't.

If Mayweather was fighting fighters of the calibre of a peak Roy Jones he would certainly not be favoured. I know we love to overrate Mayweather's H2H capabilities on here since he beat Hatton, but he is lightyears behind a prime Roy Jones in these comparisons.

Using odds as a means to criticize somebody is weak as ****, because if you are a top fighter you will usually be favoured. That was the case with Mayweather, and it would be the case for Mayweather unless he was fighting a Roy Jones, of which there were none in his weight classes. I don't know how many times Lennox Lewis was not considered a favourite.

 

Thats because the Americans never rated Lennox, and always wanted to see him lose..... Ive watched his fights with HBO commentators and they never had a postitive word for him... I always remember George Foreman argueing with Larry Merchant and the other guy about Lennox being a great.

And how Larry treated Lennox in his interview after the Vitali win was dispicable