Marciano in the Joe Louis era?

Agreed,

Historically, swarmers do not continue to thrive long into old age, and Rocky was a fighter who as it was, did not win the title until he reached his late 20's. Head to head, he would have had my vote to beat just about anyone who Louis ever faced, but as you somewhat touched upon, it would depend greatly on when these fights took place. An aging Rocky would not have beaten Joe Walcott or Ezzard Charles in my opinion. And even someone like Lou Nova could have been troublesome, had he cought Rocky at the right time.

 

The difference being Louis was past his prime when he fought Charles and Walcott ,whereas they were past theirs when they fought Marciano.
ps Charles was only stopped by Marciano once, CP.

 

Its not fair to Marciano to say they were over the Hill, Walcott was a late bloomer and had Joe on the canvas 3-4 times....Charles beat an OLD Louis..Walcott was champion when Marciano fought him and Charles was a year older and broke loose with a KO over Satterfield and Wallace, two different types of top heavys just before his suberb effort vs Marciano(one of Charles best) its almost like saying Pavlick fought a less than best version of B-Hop....a conditioned fighter who gains experience as he gets older is sometimes much more dangerous and it showed because they were beating the younger men.....Look at Calzage 37, B-Hop @ 43, Jones 40, Toney 39....these men are still formidable

 

Exactly what I was thinking, and Marciano didn't exactly have a walk in the park against Charles either time, or Walcott in the first fight.

So could Rocky have defeated better versions of those two?

 

Marciano did have a walk in the park in the rematch vs Charles and Walcott.

Walcott went out in 1 round, and Charles in 8 rounds, was able to win 1 round on all 3 score cards. Marciano was far ahead by the time of ko. The doc was not going to stop the fight.

 

Yes I know thats why I said Walcott only gave him trouble in the first fight. As for the Charles second fight, it was a brutal cut.

 

Do you think ANY fighter is in his prime at 37-38?
I said past their prime ,NOT OVER THE HILL, there is a difference.

 

Calzaghe is not formidable he was dropped by two men past their best in his last 2 fights ,THATS WHY HE HAS RETIRED!Jones was all through,Hopkins gets by on ring smarts.Toney fights in a division that is as weak as I can remember.A reality check is needed here, imo.

 

The cut was bad, but the ref, corner, and doc were not going to stop the fight, Marciano was a head by a very wide margin. It was not effected the Rock's vision, and Marciano was not too hurt to not go on.

 

I think head to head he beats all of Joe's opponents some easier than Joe did because of his style...but with his style he doesnt match Joe's reign or title defenses because his style was not made to have really long careers...i also believe he could have remained undefeated as well,and on a personal note i think he has the capability of beating a younger louis because his style is hell for Joe's...

 

"Its split in half,how we gonna stop the bleedin?"Charlie Goldman." You aint,there's no way you're gonna stop that,Rock,you gotta get him! You gotta get him ,or they may stop the fight! "Alllie Colombo.
THe doctor was examining Rocky ,very unhappy with what he saw.Rocky's handlers pleaded with him not to stop the fight.
For the first time since they had begun their long trip toward the title,Allie Columbo panicked.He was pale with fear,running along the ring apron,screaming up at Rocky;"You gotta get him.Rock!You gotta get him! Watch out! Watch out! Dont let that son of a ***** hit your nose!"
"Go after him now or you'll bleed to death"Charlie Goldman.
Yeah a walk in the park!

 

I'm not making the argument that Marciano is better than Louis because of that (which you seem to be countering)... neither did i claim that Marciano stopped Charles twice.

That said, Charles was still very good and showed perhaps his career best heavyweight performance during their fantastic first battle. Walcott, while he was a bit older than against Louis, still looked every bit as good until he got knocked out.

 

And most of that was in fact myth. It was a easy fight, outside of the cut, Marciano pitch a near shut out.

 

I dont think Walcott was past his prime when he fought Marciano and Charles just had 2 electric KO's....I think both men went down hill after the Marciano wars...Wars will do that to a fighter...Bowe/Holyfield...Gatti/Ward...Matthew Saad Muhamad & all...Marvin Johnson...I think if you take Walcott from the 1st Marciano fight And I think he would have beaten a lot of top heavys...experience is a mo/fo...just ask Kelly Pavlik...even if a fighter loses an edge he gains it back with experience..Fighters like Walcott,Toney,Hopkins,are the exception to the rule...You could argue that Charles at 33 had seen better days but judging from the Satterfield KO and the Wallace Ko leading up to Marciano 1...I would say that fit version of Charles would give anyone Ali,Foreman,Dempsey,Louis,Lewis trouble.....and a BIG fight brought out the best in most fighters and Ezzard got up for the challenge...He fell asleep in fight 3 vs Walcott but so did stonehead Fulmer vs Robinson...those were hooks

 

As I said, Marciano only stopped Charles ONCE.HERE YOU SAY HE DID IT TWICE.I wasn't countering anything in your post ,just pointing out the difference when Louis fought Charles and Walcott,to when Marciano did.