Well in that weight range you have: Jack Johnson Ezzard Charles Archie Moore Roy Jones James Toney David Haye Prime Dempsey Marciano M Spinks Patterson Bob Foster Qawi Calzaghe Langford Bivins Mike Moorer And I don't think Tunney beats that many of them
I beleive Tunney could have gotten up,he said he could have,he also said he wasnt sure he could have withstood Dempsey's attack ,if he had done so. Tunney did put Dempsey down with a quick right cross,its interesting that Barry the referee immediately started to count ,though Tunney was standing over Dempsey and NOT in a neutral corner ,as the rules demanded.
Tunney was obviously taking advantage of the full count to recover and could have got up, but the rules should have been enforced consistently for both fighters.
Very true, as this is well pointed out in numerous tapes of the fight.. clearly a refereeing mistake.. Regarding the knowdown of Tunney.. the long count..etc.. The referee is accountable, as well as the inability to take mention of the 'time keepers' count, assuming a count was being in effect in the day??........ A few hypocracies during the fight.
If you took a $10 bet with me against Tunney on each of those fighters I would be the one who made a profit.
I think he beats most if not all of them with the only problems being Langford, prime Dempsey and Marciano. Haye? That's a joke, right?
I think maybe Rocky Marciano just because his Power at that weight was like a Margarito Glove but without the wraps.
I didnt say Tunney wasnt protected, my point was that Tunney was best combination of youth, skill, and durability that Dempsey faced as champion. He would have lost to that version of Tunney whether he fought him in 1919, 1923, or 1926. He may have been marginally more competetive but I dont subscribe to the idea that Dempsey was past his prime. I think that idea is ludicrous and overplayed. He was a very well preserved fighter having rarely fought in all the years he was champion and he was barely past 30 yrs old which is still the prime of a man. He showed the same vulnerabilities against lesser competition that he showed against tunney, Tunney was just able to capitilize where as the lesser lights like Brennan and Gibbons couldnt.
Ali had a similar period of inactivity befroe coming back at 29 ,do you think he was the same fighter he had been before his exile? I think Tunney would allways give Dempsey major problems ,but beleive a Dempsey who had kept active and away from the bright lights would have won.
I'm glad you acknowledge that Frazier is much better than Dempsey. I'd pick Marciano to break Tunney down and either stop him late or win a decision like the first Charles match. Tough fight... thing is, you can run and hold against a puncher like Tyson or Dempsey, but you can't run and hold from a guy like Marciano or Frazier... they'll break you down and won't give you an inch to breath. I think Charles and Walcott may well pull off a win, too. Schmeling and Patterson have a chance but i'm not sure about them. Still, the fact that i'm only really sure of one 190lbs fighter to beat him speaks volumes about his pound for pound greatness.
From 1916 on, Dempsey was protected from every black fighter on the planet! If that's not being protected then i don't know what is. Imagine Ali never defending against Frazier, Foreman, Norton, Lyle and Young because of the color line, but instead fighting Mildenberger, Cooper, Vincente Rondon, John Conteh, Chris Finnegan.