Some (dare I say it) critical comments after watching LEONARD v HEARNS I again....

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by DINAMITA, Feb 14, 2009.


  1. Addie

    Addie Myung Woo Yuh! Full Member

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    :lol: Yes, I see that.

    Morales vs Barrera I is the epitome of the sport for me. Perhaps I am to young to appreciate the subtlety in the Leonard/Duran I fight, but I will grow - as we all do.
     
  2. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    I disagree, but I do agree with you that Hagler-Hearns is overrated. For me, a truly great fight has to have suspense over who is the winner. I'll probably take some abuse for this, but I don't think Hagler-Hearns has that suspense. I think it's always a matter of when not if Hagler will break Tommy down. I preferred Klitschko v Ibragimov personally.
     
  3. Addie

    Addie Myung Woo Yuh! Full Member

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    First of all, I don't think Manny Pacquiao is unimpressive. I may have said a few things in the past that are distasteful, but that would have been in retaliation to a few disappointments. Manny is undeniably a world class fighter, and his style is going to cause problems for a 126lb Barrera - who liked a slow pace.

    I think the Barrera that fought Kelley, Tapia, and Pacquiao is a different Barrera that fought Morales, Salud, and Sanchez. He fought Manny in 2003, after a run of fights against old, once great, war torn champions. Tapia, who was not a Featherweight, and Kelley, who was old and not the fighter he once was. Manny was a whole different story, and I'm not convinced Barrera knew how true that was going to turn out to be. All credit to Manny, however.
     
  4. GazOC

    GazOC Guest Star for Team Taff Full Member

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    The suspense is provided by wondering whether Leonard can stop Hearns or will Hearns hang on for the points win. The cut in Hagler-Hearns provides a little suspense in that fight as well, we know Marvin will KO Hearns but can he do it before the cut stops the fight?
     
  5. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    Hey, it is not an 'either or' mate, Barrera-Morales I is one of the very best fights that history has to offer. I prefer Duran-Leonard I because (a) it is a fight between 2 of the 15 best fighters in the history of the sport, (b) it is a fight between 2 of the best infighters ever (Leonard is sorely underrated in this aspect of his game), and (c) Roberto Duran is my favourite ever fighter - but, Barrera-Morales is an absolutely spectacular fight, and probably more exciting/enjoyable.

    Both fights are exhibitions of bloody brutal boxing brilliance.

    :bbb
     
  6. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    For me, the suspense was never there. The doubt was there with SRL-Tommy but I don't know if it can be called suspense because I did not find the fight particularly engaging. I had no suspense with Hagler-Hearns it must be honest. I was absolutely overcome with suspense during Duran-Leonard I. Gripped. Every round was a war. I felt like Roberto was winning, but I had no confidence the judges were sharing that view.
     
  7. Addie

    Addie Myung Woo Yuh! Full Member

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    Not a lot of people will agree with me, but I think Barrera was one of the best 122lb fighters ever after his defeats to Jones Junior.

    That is why it's confusing when you ask me which is a better Marco, 1996 or 2002? I don't think he was a motivated fighter after Morales II, but I also think he was better defensively and more well rounded than the 1996 version that fought McKinney.

    In relation to Pacquiao, I think a more offensively minded Barrera would fair better against Pacquiao. Marco had blinding hand speed at 122lb, and this would have also improved his chances, as would his ability to go 12 rounds at a furious pace - like he showed against Morales in their epic fight in 2000.

    Pacquiao is a great offensive fighter, but Marco had one of the greatest offensive arsenals I have ever seen as a Super Bantamweight. He never really showcased it at 126lb, though. Strange.
     
  8. Arriba

    Arriba Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    They're both amazing fights. I think Barrera-Morales is more acceptable to the casual viewer though...boxing purists can spend all day analyzing every punch, movement and gesture in Duran-Leonard I and come up with different ideas for each. It was like chess with punches.
     
  9. Addie

    Addie Myung Woo Yuh! Full Member

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    It doesn't help having to watch it on shitty Youtube. I really need to get it on DVD. You just cannot fully appreciate a fight under those circumstances.
     
  10. MAG1965

    MAG1965 Loyal Member banned

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    That fight in 1981 was incredible. They shifted roles several times and the ebbs and flow always changed. I thought Hearns/Leonard was the most incredible fight I have ever seen. I watched it live on what was called ON Tv back on that night. Hearns came in and couldn't hit Ray but he was using his jab and nailing Ray. Then Ray hit Hearns mid rounds and wobbled him after Tommy was dominating, Then Tommy started boxing and started to dominate again until Ray landed more punches. Ebbs and flows. Find a fight which went back and forth like either Hearns/Leonard fights. Those two guys were about evenly matched as you could get. Leonard/Duran I thought was more overrated-espcially Duran's win since he lost the next two fights easily.
     
  11. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    Fair enough mate, I think you do know a little more about MAB's career than me. I have seen most of his world title fights, but not every single one, and I do think that Manny is a slightly superior fighter, will rank higher in all-time terms, and would beat Marco any day of the week.

    However, I don't know if you have ever noticed this, but I have made a thread or two in my time saying that I think MAB has constructed THE best resume of any boxer from our generation other than possibly Oscar. This coming from a monster fan of B-Hop and Pac! I don't recall if you commented on the thread, but I can send you a link if you want. If you actually go through each of MAB's fights on paper, his resume is pretty stunning by contemporary standards.

    :good
     
  12. Addie

    Addie Myung Woo Yuh! Full Member

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    It is best not to go against Roberto Duran at ESB. He is heavily favored over Ray Leonard - of that, I am convinced.
     
  13. MAG1965

    MAG1965 Loyal Member banned

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    That fight was not a war.It was an active fight but not a war. If it was Duran's face would have been marked up. Hagler/Hearns was incredible punches landed and both guys throwing thier best.
     
  14. MAG1965

    MAG1965 Loyal Member banned

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    When Tommy fought Hagler I did not know Tommy would lose. If you recall that Hearns was boxing at the beginning of round 3. He did that with Ray and was starting to hit Marvin with jab and more rights in round 3. Hagler/Hearns is one of the greatest fights of all time. I just do not think you like Hearns dinamita.
     
  15. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    I have to say, for me "ebb and flow" means one guy being in trouble, then recovering and putting the other guy in trouble, a la Corrales-Castillo or Benn-McClennan. Although Sugar Ray was losing rounds, I don't think he was ever in the slightest danger. Very little suspense, very little drama.

    Yawn. Irrelevant. Inredible fight, inredible performance, incredible win, all irrespective of anything else that ever happened.