Why Haye-Klitshcko's not a done deal yet: both sides of the story

ishy · Feb 16, 2009

Dan Rafael wrote a blog on ESPN basically saying that it was Haye's fault why the fight has not been made yet. He got some quote from Haye's manager and whatnot.

For months, there's been talk of a proposed June 20 fight between heavyweight champion Wladimir Klitschko and David Haye, the former cruiserweight champ who moved up to heavyweight late last year. Although the deal might ultimately be finalized -- and there is still plenty of time to get it done -- it's a lot further from being set than some might lead you to believe, namely the British press.

The media speculation I've been reading makes me laugh because the breathless prose from the Brits, who have anointed Haye as the savior of the heavyweight division, make it sound as if the fight is done.

It's not, even though Emanuel Steward, Klitschko's trainer, was quoted throughout the British press in recent days as saying he thought a deal was imminent because Wladimir had called him to ask him what the size of the ring should be so it could be specified in the contract. The British media and Steward jumped to the conclusion that the question meant the deal must be about done if they were down to such nitty-gritty terms. Steward had also mentioned the bout would be at the 02 Arena in London.

However, the fight is not close to being made and if it gets done, it won't be at the 02.

The plan called for the bout to be at Stamford Bridge, a soccer stadium in suburban London that could accommodate more than 40,000 for a fight.
After seeing the comments from Steward and continually reading about the imminent deal, I got in touch with Bernd Boente, the one man who could truly explain what was going on because he has handled Klitschko's business dealing for years, managing him and older brother and fellow heavyweight titleholder Vitali Klitschko.

Boente cleared things up quickly, telling me of the deal, "We are pretty far away from each other and the fight definitely won't be at the 02 Arena. It is occupied that night."

Haye has been talking trash in the British press in an attempt to land a heavyweight title fight, first directing it toward Vitali, whom he thought he would originally face, and then against Wladimir, to whom his verbiage turned once Vitali elected to make his mandatory defense against Juan Carlos Gomez on March 21 rather than risk being stripped of his belt by facing Haye. Once it was settled with which brother Haye and his manager/trainer Adam Booth, who also runs Haye's Hayemaker Promotions, should negotiate, the sides started working on a deal for the June 20 fight at Stamford Bridge, the arena that Haye brought to the table.

Klitschko, being the true champion that he is, never had an issue about fighting in Haye's home country.

Even though Klitschko would have preferred to fight earlier than June 20, that was the date they targeted because of Haye. With the soccer season going on, the stadium wouldn't be available until then. Also, the date worked for the three major television networks that would be involved in the fight -- HBO in the United States; the United Kingdom's Setanta, which has a contract with Haye; and German network RTL, which has a contract with Klitschko.

The stadium, and all of the potential revenue it could bring, was a major reason Klitschko settled on Haye as his first choice. Lord knows it wasn't because Haye had done anything to warrant a heavyweight title shot -- unless he deserved it based on less than six rounds in the division, a first-round knockout of obscure Tomasz Bonin in a 2007 heavyweight trial run followed by a shaky fifth-round knockout win in November against Monte Barrett (a man, by the way, who Klitschko crushed in seven rounds in 2000 in England on a Lennox Lewis undercard).

Anyway, while the Brits were reporting a virtual done deal for a fight in the wrong building, Boente told me that Booth had told him that they were pulling out of the stadium deal because of concerns over the deepening worldwide economic crisis.

"They backed out of the stadium because of the economy and now we have to negotiate everything new," Boente said. "That [stadium] was a huge portion of the deal. Otherwise, Haye is not bringing much to the table."

Even without the stadium, Haye is still asking for a significant slice of the revenue.

"We are absolutely willing to do the fight, but we have to start all over again to bring them down from their high horse. Adam is very inexperienced. He may be a good coach, but he's definitely not a good manager. If he's not taking this chance, do you know how long it will be before Haye is in a mandatory position? It will take a long time. This is a unique chance for Haye and they are being so greedy. If Haye had a name like Lennox Lewis or Evander Holyfield in their best days, we would have additional money from international sales. But that is not the case."

Boente said he and Shelly Finkel, the American adviser for the Klitschkos, had always been a little wary about the stadium and Haye's ability to draw a big crowd. Ricky Hatton and Joe Calzaghe, he ain't.

Boente saw it up close when he was ringside with Vitali for Haye's fight at the 02 Arena against Barrett.

"I heard they maybe sold 3,000 tickets and there weren't more than 7,000 or 8,000 people there," he said. "They had to hang curtains to close off the upper part of the arena. So we were always a little wary of the stadium, but they were our co-promoters. But now we will have to see about the fight. I would personally still love to do it at [Stamford Bridge], but now we have to look for something brand new and see what is interesting. And also the deal with Haye has to be new because we gave him way more than even a mandatory challenger would get. A mandatory challenger would get 25 or 30 percent [of the money], but he was getting a lot more than that. But that was before, because he brought the stadium to the table. They said they cannot be so sure of the stadium with the economic climate."
Boente said Booth told him Hayemaker Promotions was willing to cede the entire promotion to Klitschko's company, K2. Of course, that means Hayemaker would not be at any financial risk.

"They said they would just keep all of the English television rights," Boente said. "Why would we do that? If you think you'll keep all the money from English TV, what are you bringing to the table to get so much more than a mandatory challenger? They think they are bringing a superstar to the fight when he's fought [six] rounds in the heavyweight division.

"Before, it was an interesting deal, but now he would just be a regular challenger. And we were honoring [the contract Haye has] with Setanta when for any other fight we would have negotiated with Sky TV or ITV or maybe put it on pay-per-view [in the U.K.]."
Boente said if they can't re-work the deal with Haye, American contender Cris Arreola was an option, even though Arreola's next move is supposed to be an April 11 fight on HBO on the undercard of Paul Williams-Winky Wright.

"We always told Shelly to make sure that [Arreola promoter] Dan Goossen knows that whatever contract they sign that there should be an exit [clause] for a title fight," Boente said.

He made it clear that Haye remained Klitschko's first choice, but only if it makes economic sense.

"It does not make sense to fight him if he doesn't bring more to the table than a regular challenger like Hasim Rahman or Tony Thompson," Boente said. "Why pay him more than a mandatory challenger? And he was complaining about options. Let him go fight Ruslan Chagaev or Nikolai Valuev and see how many options their promoters ask for."

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3907402&name=rafael_dan

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Sorry if it's a bit long.

ishy · Feb 16, 2009

Now Adam Booth has given his account of the story to Setanta:

Adam Booth has slammed the accusation from Wladimir Klitschko's camp that David Haye's greed is stopping a fight taking place.

In an exclusive interview with setanta.com, Booth refuted comments from the manager of both Klitschko brothers, Bernd Boente, that Haye's unreasonable demands were causing problems.

Initially a co-promotion between K2 and Hayemaker was mooted for the proposed bout on June 20, but both parties accept this will not now happen.

Boente says a new deal will now have to be struck, suggesting Haye offers nothing more than previous mandatory challengers Tony Thompson and Hasim Rahman and is unreasonable to expect the UK television rights.

Klitschko is now believed to be considering a fight with Chris Arreola, but Booth insists this fight will not be as lucrative as a bout with the Hayemaker.

"He's talking utter nonsense," Booth told setanta.com. "When you go through the numbers they make about two million (dollars) more than if they were to take the Arreola fight, on the numbers they've declared to me.

"When they fight Thompson or Rahman they get a nominal figure from HBO. They get their German money, the ticket sales and everything else.

"From that money they have to pay Rahman. They take in the same amount of money from HBO, German television and ticket sales for fighting David but on this occasion they don't have to pay David anything.

"All David's taking is the value he brings to the table which is the UK TV money. That's it, because the Klitschkos don't get any UK TV money.

"We're talking a nominal figure, tens of thousands of pounds. You're talking 50,000 euros or less, that's all they're worth in the UK.

"That's fine. We're not taking their value, David's just keeping his own. I don't see how anyone could see how that would be unreasonable."

The Hayemaker director also slammed the suggestion that Haye was quibbling over rematch options, insisting they have no problem with accepting the Ukrainian boxer's demands to fighting two more bouts against either Klitschko brother if he were to beat Wladimir.

"They said I've got a problem with the rematch options," Booth added. "I've agreed to the two rematch options which is basically two rematches against either brother, either way they want it.

"What they want in the rematches is that if David was to win and David was ordered to fight a mandatory challenger, David would have to vacate his titles, so he could end up beating the Klitschkos three times and not be heavyweight champion - and he says I'm making ridiculous demands!

"Wladimir makes more money fighting David. They get all the rematch options they want."

Booth hopes that Klitschko adviser Shelly Finkel can mediate a settlement between the two parties.

"Bernd Boente seems to be taking things a bit too personally," Booth added. "There's also Shelly Finkel who is an advisor to the Klitschkos, he is a lot more experienced than Bernd. I've spoken to Shelly a few times, so I'll be calling him to see if I can get any type of sense."

Booth is still hopeful a fight can take place, at a destination of the Klitschko camp's choosing, and reiterated that if they have to look elsewhere it will not be due to a lack of trying on the Londoner's part.

"The fight we're talking about is June 20, so there needs to be enough time for the fight to be sold," Booth said.

"We'll look at anyone from the champion down to number ten with any of the four main governing bodies.

"I have to keep my eye on all aspects of the business rather than putting all my eggs in one basket.

"That said, we're doing everything we possibly can to make this fight happen.

"I'm not saying it definitely won't be Stamford Bridge. They can promote it wherever they want.

"What we've done is drop our figure to go to Germany. They make exactly the same amount if the fight was in Stamford Bridge.

"All we are saying is it won't be a co-promotion because the terms of the co-promotion were totally unacceptable, so we've said to them they can promote."

http://www.setanta.com/uk/Articles/other-sports/2009/02/16/Adam-Booth-exclusive/gnid-40477/

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robpalmer135 · Feb 16, 2009

should all get sorted

bored · Feb 16, 2009

Sorry why are you dealing in facts when we have so many experts who are involved in negotiations in the general forum?

I hope this isn't in Germany, the first big heavyweight fight in ages would seem completely **** with no atmosphere at all. All the casual viewers would tune in thinking that it's a big fight and get a few Germans cheering a Klitschko slappy jab.

ishy · Feb 16, 2009

bored said: ↑

Sorry why are you dealing in facts when we have so many experts who are involved in negotiations in the general forum?

I hope this isn't in Germany, the first big heavyweight fight in ages would seem completely **** with no atmosphere at all. All the casual viewers would tune in thinking that it's a big fight and get a few Germans cheering a Klitschko slappy jab.
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:good

I think I will post this thread in the general as well.

Broxi · Feb 16, 2009

Dan Rafaels account seems plausible enough if not for the obvious bias he shows towards:

a) "Brits"
b) David Haye
c) The Klitschkos

Do you think David Haye could sell out a stadium in the UK?

ishy · Feb 16, 2009

Broxi said: ↑

Dan Rafaels account seems plausible enough if not for the obvious bias he shows towards:

a) "Brits"
b) David Haye
c) The Klitschkos

Do you think David Haye could sell out a stadium in the UK?
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Rafael seems like a Haye hater. I've read some other stuff by him regarding Haye and he isn't too fond of the guy.

PaddyD1983 · Feb 16, 2009

Dan Rafael's comments are hilarious! The sheer antagonism towards Haye and his team are not really becoming of a manager/negotiator. Surely staying objective in all of this should be his perogative.

Anyways, this stinks of the rumours prior to Hatton/Pac. There is too much money involved for both camps to walk away from this deal. It'll be made.

Broxi · Feb 16, 2009

ishy said: ↑

Rafael seems like a Haye hater. I've read some other stuff by him regarding Haye and he isn't too fond of the guy.
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He sounds like he could be a poster from the General Forum TBH. Still, he may have a point, just how much of a name is David Haye.

We all have a different perspective on boxing to the average guy on the street who watches the football on a Saturday and tunes into a big Ricky Hatton fight against a Mayweather or someone like this but I have a feeling David Haye will be more or less unknown to them. There was a fair bit of media attention for the Enzo Mac (who is another unknown to the average guy in the street) and probably less so for the Barrett fight.

It's all dependent on how many British boxing fans he could get to buy tickets and travel for the fight. I'd probably go but most folk I know wouldn't.

noonan · Feb 16, 2009

If it was local to me i"d go but i wouldnt travel for this fight!!

Where as jc or hatton i would!

PaddyD1983 · Feb 16, 2009

noonan said: ↑

If it was local to me i"d go but i wouldnt travel for this fight!!

Where as jc or hatton i would!
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I really like Haye and this time last year I'd have banged it on my credit card and travelled.

Now? I'll go if it's in London (or anywhere in UK) otherwise it'll be PPV for me! I'm not even travelling for Hatton v Pac so wont be going to this!

antcull · Feb 16, 2009

Dan Rafael is a complete twat....his bias is pathetic.

I questioned him a few times in that chat thing he does.....regarding Haye and how half of his worlds top 25 prospects were American, atsch

The ******* banned me

Anyway this fight will be sorted out....Haye would sell out a 35,000/40,000 seater stadium.

Unified World heavyweight championship fight with the No.1 in Wlad and Haye would do great business.....there would be alot of hype for this one and the casual fans would be interested

BremnerBomber · Feb 16, 2009

Absoulute rubbish from Don Rafeal !!!!

First of all Stamford Bridge was where Wlad wanted to fight, but it's way to expensive to rent out and the logistics are all wrong. Do you really think they would allow permission for 40,000 boxing fans to pour out into Chelsea at 1am ???

Second of all yes the the Monte Barrett fight was a bit of a let down !!! but all ticket sales for sporting events are low at the moment because of the economy... but still 11,000 against an unknown in the UK is pretty good, I'm sure most elite boxers would be happy with that, plus he got the highest viewing figures that setanta have recorded for a boxing bout. And i'm sure its alot more than Arreola has sold off his own back.

My feeling is that Wlad now wants this back in Germany and is low balling Haye on the money side

hitman_hatton1 · Feb 17, 2009

Broxi said: ↑

Do you think David Haye could sell out a stadium in the UK?
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i do against the right opponent.

and klitschko would be the right opponent.

the enzo fight was a sell out remember.

a case of a high profile-ish opponent. :bbb

46and0 · Feb 17, 2009

It's Ireland's Setanta, not the United Kingdom's.

Also, Haye called Wlad out initially, not Vitali first.

Oh and the sport is called football, not soccer.

What an ignorant wank.

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