Who is higher all time p4p, trinidad or calzage?

but trinidad is not even top 20 ATG in WW

 

Isn't that more a testament to the quality of the division and the length of time it has been around?

If we could make a new division at 350 pounds and some guy became champ and reigned for the next five years what would that mean? He would likely be a top 20 ATG in that weight class for many, many generations. Doesn't tell the whole story about where he stands vis-a-vis other fighters does it?

 

Tito.

 

Great, great post. Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

but 100 years in time, 168 would be old enough and i feel calzaghe would still be the in the top 3..as for now i think its tito but calzaghe would gain grounds on him as time passes...again, calzaghe is the standard for which every 168 fighter's accomplishment is compared

 

I think that's arguable.
Welterweight is probably the most talent-heavy division in boxing history but I think you can certainly make a case for Tito being top 20.

 

The problem is that SMW has only been around for about 25 years. What about the all-time greats that fought between 160-175 pounds before 1984 (thereabouts)? There were lots and lots of fighters that were better than Joe that end up being ignored due to having to be considered at only the 160 or 175 pound weight class (against a much larger historical population of fighters than at SMW). There were decades upon decades upon decades, etc., of fighters who fought guys closer to 175 when they weighed closer to 160 and every combination in between. Are you interested in who is the best or who you believe (right now) might be remembered?

And, why would you be so certain that Joe will be remembered in the top three in 100 years? Since '84, you could make a strong case that there were many greater fighters already (Hearns, Eubank, Liles, Nunn, Benn, Toney, Jones, Jr.). Joe held the WBO (hardly the most prestigious belt). You could argue for Ottke as well as Joe if you want to go by record & number of years/defenses then (and ignore comp, talent, skill, & athleticism - and more importantly, what your eyes should be telling you when you watch the aforementioned names on tape - if you weren't around when they were fighting).

Could Calzaghe and Ottke really be #1 and #2 at 168? :yep That alone should make you wonder if you aren't ascribing too much importance to the weight class rather than the fighters.

 

Trinidad, easily !

 

WW is perhaps the strongest and deepest division in history, and I disagree, I believe Tito is CERTAINLY top 20. Compared to super-middleweight, which is one of the weakest and shallowest.

 

this is the consensus top 20 WW...if you are to remove one and put tito in that place, who would it be?

Robinson
Leonard
Armstrong
Walcott
Gavilan
Hearns
Napoles
Walker
Ross
Griffith
Britton
Lewis
Benitez
Duran
Williams
Burley
Ryan
Basilio
Whitaker
Mcclarin

 

GREAT posts........BOTH great fighters.:good

 

After a quick glance, I'd have Tito ahead of Benitez for starters.
Also, why not draw up a list of the top 20 super-middles ever and see how it compares in quality to your welterweight list? Calzaghe is a terrific fighter but I just don't think he beat enough quality opposition to be ranked above Tito.

 

i just feel that calzaghe legacy would grow just as galaxy's legacy grows..up to know galaxy is still the best 115 fighter ever..they may not have top 100 resume but timeliness is what would allow calzaghe and galaxy to remain in the top 100 list...

 

I do agree that people will look fondly on Calzaghe's career as time goes on.
Being undefeated and having so many title defences (despite the fact his title reign was widely criticised at the time) will cause people to overlook the holes in his resume.
My question is - should they?
Looking at both their careers objectively right now, and without anticipating what people will think in 20 years time, was Joe better than Tito?

 

of the recent fighters, i can only think of tyson, morales and barrera...those three accomplished more than calzaghe but trinidad has better accomplishment than those three