Prime Barrera vs Prime Marquez

That's where I stand. Both of them were so good at their peak, I have no problem seeing either man win. I am the Barrera fan, but Marquez could have beaten Marco on his best day, like I see Barrera having all the tools to beat Juan. They were both great, and I don't see any definitive factors leaning towards either fighter. Nothing definitive.

 

barrera beats jmm at 130...but there is no way a prime barrera beats jmm at 135...

a prime pac beats all three mexicans(jmm,em,mab) at any weight

 

Barrera's prime wasn't at 135lbs. So how does that one work out?

 

Actually Hopkins was a huge MW, yes he could make weight but he was clearly benefited from the move to 175 as he doesn't have to drain his body. Same with Marquez, he benefited from the move to 130. Fighters think squeezing their body into the smallest weight class they can make gives them a weight/strength advantage but it also drains the body and doesn't do much good sapping their speed, stamina, strength.

As for Hopkins making 156, yes he did, but are you away he fought at 170, and he looked a little slower/slugish and less active against DLH. He may have made 154 at a push but he wouldn't have been as good.

Remember DLH saying against BHOPs, 'I could have made 147 tonight', I'm sure OScar could but we all saw what happened next time he made 147, just because you can make a lower weight doesn't make it your best weight or a good idea. It also doesn't mean you aren't big at the weight

Anyway my initial point was Marquez is a naturally bigger man than Barrera, who started at 115, spent most of his career at 122 and only moved up to 126 and 130 for marquee fights. Marquez started at 126, fought as high as 135 in his early 20s and drained back down to 126 for title fights

 

barrera's prime is at 126, JMM prime is 130-135...

thus the thread title prime barrera(126) vs prime JMM(130-35)...

JMM has never been a top 10 p4p fighter at 126...he is always top 5 at 130 and 135

 

Do you not listen? Hopkins walked around no higher than 166lbs between fights at middleweight. And was so in shape he had a 28 inch waist. He never had to drain his body to get down to 160lbs. Two back to back defeats to Taylor made him persue a new challenge. He wasn't a HUGE middleweight and made the weight comfortably. He hired Mackie Shilstone to get up to light-heavyweight. That not tell you something?

Hopkins was always inside the limit easily over a long period of time, weighed 156lbs at 39 years of age, walked around only 6lbs above the limit, and moved out of the division for a new challenge, and had to hire a fitness guru to move to light-heavyweight. Where is your evidence that he was a HUGE middleweight who drained his body?

Hopkins made the weight easy. I'll shout it again "MADE THE WEIGHT EASY"

 

I think Morales gets the better of Pacquiao at 122, 126, or 130. He knew how to beat him, he just didn't have it left in the tank to execute it in their second fight.

I think JMM beats Pacquiao at any weight, even 140, as I feel he is the more talented fighter, who already has two victories over P-Man.

 

I had Marquez winning double the rounds Pac did over the 24 rounds they boxed. 16 for Marquez and 8 for Pac. The first fight I had Pacman winning the first 2, and 2 of the remaining 10. The knockdowns tightened things up for Pac. I thought Marquez was better in the first fight.

 

morales-pac trilogy...that was a fight between a past prime morales and a pre-prime pac...pac then was one dimensional...

so prime for prime, p4p, i feel pac would beat morales

 

So we have two fighters fighting each other in seperate weights? Prime v prime would have to be at 126lbs. Anyone who thinks otherwise is seriously clueless.

 

that would be unfair for JMM, his best year is when he is in 130-135..

now i ask you, who wins prime for prime, duran or leonard?

now i ask you, who wins prime for prime, arguello or pryor?

 

Marquez's best weight was 126lbs. He spent most of his career at that weight and thats where his skills were evidently at their best even though he's had bigger wins at the higher weights. He was quite simply a better fighter at featherweight.

Duran was still in his prime for the Leonard I fight and arguably the 2nd as well, so that question was awnsered 29 years ago.

Arguello v Pryor. Void. Arguello was at his best at 130lbs during the late 70's. Unfair matching him against a naturally bigger Pryor two weights above. So to be sensible and precise, you're question here cannot be awnsered.

 

IF you think he made the weight 'easy', you've clearly never had to make weight.

Yes he walked around at 166 yet was 170 in the ring, do you really believe that he walked around at 166 yet weighed more in the ring? BS

Look at the in the ring weights, look at Hopkins physique, hes a big man, he only ever fought 1 man at MW taller than him, and Hopkins was still as muscularly thick as his opponents. When did anyone ever look bigger than Hops?

The fact he made 160 for all those years was sheer discipline and hard work. He certainly had a new lease of life at 175, and looked better against Tarver than he had in his past 5 or so fights at MW

Why did he hire a nutitionist? Because every modern boxer can benefit from a nutritionist, simple as that, Hopkins didn't need to bulk to goto LHW and if he did add muscle mass he'd drain back down to LHW from 180s (he currently weighs around 185 in the ring)

Don't you understand the logic that if a fighter weighs 10lbs more on fight night, they must be draining to make the weight?

 

no way, JMM has never been p4p top 10 at 126...he is always top 5 in the last three years

 

Mackie Shilstone was hired by Spinks and Jones, and later Hopkins. And those three fighters needed him to get them up to an unatural weight for their bodies. Shilstone isn't just a nutritionist, he does programmes on athletes adding weight correctly and keeping their speed. It was clearly unatural for Hopkins body to move up to light-heavyweight.

Taylor is a case of being a HUGE middleweight. Clearly thicker set than Hopkins from head to toe. He certainly had to boil down to the weight.

You keep on thinking Hopkins was a massive middleweight because of his height. That certainly helped him when moving up.

Fighters putting on around 10lbs is natural, it's when it gets to 15lbs, etc, thats when it becomes alarming. Here is another thing, Hopkins does weigh 185lbs on fight night, thats 10lbs above the weight limit. You trying to tell me Hopkins is draining himself to make light-heavyweight? Surely not.

Hopkins wasn't ever struggling with 160lbs, he came in under the weight virtually all the time at middleweight. If he was draining himself as you foolishly suggest, he would never have took weighed in for De La Hoya at 156lbs. NEVER!