Frazier retires after FOTC, how is he rated?

Marciano is in the top four why exactly?

 

No, IMO Frazier needed the third Ali fight to get in the top dozen Heavyweights of all-time.

Without that fight and indeed his career (72-76 and 81), people would of just said Smokin' Joe caught a comebacking Ali at the right time, and got out of dodge because he knew he could not do it again.

Frazier IMO, would be rated lower not higher than he is now.

 

I agree. I think Ali would be the solid # 2 with that defeat always looming over his head with no way to avenge it. It would take the wow out of Ali beating Foreman too. Most people would just say Frazier would best them both. IMO

 

High....but it would depend on what Ali did after that fight. If Ali went on to beat Foreman and Frazier never lost to Foreman...Frazier would be remembered in his prime and rated higher than he is now...Joe was never the same after Ali 1 but mainly because he was not consistantly fit and began partying too much

 

The Greatest Win of all times.

 

He would be atleast top 5.

 

Marciano did clear out his era when he retire. Not many fighters can claim that. Also wins over Charles, Walcott, and Moore are not too shabby.

 

so does that mean ali is top 4 if he stayed undefeated in the 60s and never came back after a 4 year exile?

 

I think that Frazier is top 5 if he retires. Firstly, he is clearly better than Ali, who proved himself as the dominant heavy of the 60s, and the dominant heavy of the 70s. The third best of the 70s was George Foreman, but George was KOd by the Frazier reject in Ali. And Clearly if George cannot break down Ali, he can not possibly hope to hurt the better chinned Frazier. He was a machine, who always found a way to win. He cleaned his division out, never turned up out of shape and knew the right time to get. Only Marciano can say the same, but Frazier was bigger than Marciano and had the same legendary stamina. Louis may have given him some trouble, but Joe would have found a way to get him. Certainly Joe wouldnt have allowed himself to undertrain like Louis did against Schmelling. I think when i think about it, Ali would have to be still number 2 or 3 due to his dominance over late 70s and through the 60s, and the fact that Prime Frazier beat prime Ali means that Frazier could not possibly be rated below Ali, it would be like rating Floyd Paterson over Sonny Liston.

 

He would be hard to rate. He has the speed to beat ATGs, but his chin is questionable and he would not be able to stand up to big hitters like Lyle, Shavers, Foreman etc. He was lucky to catch Liston on the downslide and would not have the chin to compete with the modern superheavys. After all, look at the little guys like banks and cooper who knocked him down. If a foreman, Lewis, or Klitchsko catches him, he finishes him off.

 

who has a questionable chin ? it looks like you are saying frazier has but then you mention cooper and banks.you can't possibly mean ali can you ??

 

He means how Ali would have been viewed if he never came back from the exile. That Ali had never been caught cleanly by a really big puncher, but had been floored by Cooper and Banks, and he would therefore probably be accused of being chinny.

Good posts Boilermaker! I more or less completely agree.