THE MEANEST of the HEAVYWEIGHT Champions

Jack Dempsey · Mar 14, 2009

pugilist_boyd said: ↑

Tuesday, August 7
Updated: August 8, 4:13 PM ET
Murray: Dempsey was the meanest
[FONT=arial, geneva]By Jim Murray[/FONT]
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Editor's note: This column originally appeared in the Los Angeles Times on November 17, 1965.
There are all kinds of ways to get ready for a heavyweight championship fight. You work on what you need.
Joe Louis used to practice going to the farthest neutral corner. Gene Tunney practiced running for his life, Floyd Patterson should practice getting up and Muhammad Whatisname should practice shutting up.
Lots of fighters practice hooks to the head but Gene Fullmer used to practice hooks with the head. Rocky Marciano threw so many punches in so many directions he just had to make sure he didn't hit the referee -- or the ring posts.
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[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica, sans-serif]SportsCentury will profile Jack Dempsey on Friday, August 10 at 8 and 11 p.m. ET. [/FONT]
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The man who can best testify to the terrible tornadic frenzy of the Dempsey attack is a tall, graceful, New Orleans-born Irishman named Marty Burke.
Martin Burke, now 70 and still blondhaired, is known around the sound stages of Hollywood as the father of 20th Century Fox's television star, Paul Burke ("12 O'Clock High") but he was known around the gyms and barges of New Orleans' "Irish Channel" section as "The Turk," the best left-hook artist who ever came out of bayou country.
Marty's book, if he writes it, is going to be called "1,000 Rounds with Jack Dempsey, or Did You Think I Got This Ear Answering the Telephone?"
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Marty began to train with Dempsey well before the Dempsey-Willard fight. The two of them toured the tank towns of New Jersey and Pennsylvania where Dempsey's manager, Doc Kearns, posted a ritual $500 fee for anyone who could go the route against the tigerish Dempsey. Doc used to post himself behind the curtain with a bung starter in case any of the tank palookas got lucky, but Marty recalls the few who squared off against Dempsey went out on a stretcher. Marty had to take up the slack and keep the show going.

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Marty's next-hardest fight was with Harry Greb. "He hit me so often, I actually turned around to see who was helping him. With Greb, it was a good thing he couldn't hit hard because he hit often. With Dempsey, it was a good thing he didn't hit often because he hit hard."
At 6 feet 3 inches, Marty had altitude going for him in most fights. Also, he presented a slim target. He weighed as little as 154 when he first began to tour with Dempsey. He fought George Godfrey, on of the great Negro fighters of the '20s, only after the boxing commission told him to put on four more pounds on the afternoon of the fight. Marty spent the rest of the day draining down bootleg ale and Guinness Stout. He not only made the weight, he almost made the drunk tank. This was the first time they ever had to give a fighter a shower BEFORE the fight. Marty showed up at 175 pounds, singing "Mother Machree." Godfrey, a two-bottle man himself, just looked jealous.
Marty even won the fight. At 220 and cold sober, Godfrey was no match for him, and this was at a time when all the ranking heavyweights were ducking behind the color line and keeping Godfrey, known variously as the "Baron of Leiperville" or the "Leopard of Leiperville" and other alliterations, at bay. In time, Godfrey came up to Marty after the bout and allowed, "Turk, you're the first fighter I met in a long time didn't ax me to handcuff myself."
After Dempsey, Burke didn't see any need to ask anybody to handcuff himself. In fact, he was the first to know it when Dempsey began to lose it all. "I told him before the Tunney fight, 'Jack, you know you can't fight anymore. Tunney shouldn't lose a round.'" It turned out, Tunney didn't. Not even the one he was knocked down in for 14 seconds in the second fight.
Marty drifted around the fight game for several more years after that -- or until he got knocked out in one round by Young Stribling. "Five years before, Stribling couldn't have hit me with a handful of birdseed."
Back in New Orleans, Marty opened a French Quarter saloon so tough the shore patrol used to walk it in platoon strength. Some of Marty's last fights were with longshoreman half his age and twice his weight and one night when business was good, Marty sat down after he had stacked a few customers in a neat pile outside the front door, and reached in his mouth and extracted three teeth by hand which had already been loosened by fists.
He spoke in a lisp as he inspected the bloody molars. "I wonder," he questioned, "how Dempsey missed these?"
Thi
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Amusing read, great find:good

Maxmomer · Mar 14, 2009

Seamus said: ↑

Got schooled by Tunney.

Seriously, he won 1 out of 20 rounds against the great Gene.
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Louis got schooled by Schmeling, Liston got schooled by Ali, Tyson go schooled by Holyfield, Douglas and Lewis. Were they not all still nightmares in the ring?

DRMULLEN · Mar 14, 2009

Round15..well said..

Bummy Davis · Mar 14, 2009

pugilist_boyd said: ↑

Tuesday, August 7
Updated: August 8, 4:13 PM ET
Murray: Dempsey was the meanest
[FONT=arial, geneva]By Jim Murray[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, geneva]
This content is protected
[/FONT]

This content is protected

Editor's note: This column originally appeared in the Los Angeles Times on November 17, 1965.
There are all kinds of ways to get ready for a heavyweight championship fight. You work on what you need.
Joe Louis used to practice going to the farthest neutral corner. Gene Tunney practiced running for his life, Floyd Patterson should practice getting up and Muhammad Whatisname should practice shutting up.
Lots of fighters practice hooks to the head but Gene Fullmer used to practice hooks with the head. Rocky Marciano threw so many punches in so many directions he just had to make sure he didn't hit the referee -- or the ring posts.
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
This content is protected
[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica, sans-serif]SportsCentury will profile Jack Dempsey on Friday, August 10 at 8 and 11 p.m. ET. [/FONT]
This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

The man who can best testify to the terrible tornadic frenzy of the Dempsey attack is a tall, graceful, New Orleans-born Irishman named Marty Burke.
Martin Burke, now 70 and still blondhaired, is known around the sound stages of Hollywood as the father of 20th Century Fox's television star, Paul Burke ("12 O'Clock High") but he was known around the gyms and barges of New Orleans' "Irish Channel" section as "The Turk," the best left-hook artist who ever came out of bayou country.
Marty's book, if he writes it, is going to be called "1,000 Rounds with Jack Dempsey, or Did You Think I Got This Ear Answering the Telephone?"
This content is protected

Marty began to train with Dempsey well before the Dempsey-Willard fight. The two of them toured the tank towns of New Jersey and Pennsylvania where Dempsey's manager, Doc Kearns, posted a ritual $500 fee for anyone who could go the route against the tigerish Dempsey. Doc used to post himself behind the curtain with a bung starter in case any of the tank palookas got lucky, but Marty recalls the few who squared off against Dempsey went out on a stretcher. Marty had to take up the slack and keep the show going.

This content is protected

This content is protected

Marty's next-hardest fight was with Harry Greb. "He hit me so often, I actually turned around to see who was helping him. With Greb, it was a good thing he couldn't hit hard because he hit often. With Dempsey, it was a good thing he didn't hit often because he hit hard."
At 6 feet 3 inches, Marty had altitude going for him in most fights. Also, he presented a slim target. He weighed as little as 154 when he first began to tour with Dempsey. He fought George Godfrey, on of the great Negro fighters of the '20s, only after the boxing commission told him to put on four more pounds on the afternoon of the fight. Marty spent the rest of the day draining down bootleg ale and Guinness Stout. He not only made the weight, he almost made the drunk tank. This was the first time they ever had to give a fighter a shower BEFORE the fight. Marty showed up at 175 pounds, singing "Mother Machree." Godfrey, a two-bottle man himself, just looked jealous.
Marty even won the fight. At 220 and cold sober, Godfrey was no match for him, and this was at a time when all the ranking heavyweights were ducking behind the color line and keeping Godfrey, known variously as the "Baron of Leiperville" or the "Leopard of Leiperville" and other alliterations, at bay. In time, Godfrey came up to Marty after the bout and allowed, "Turk, you're the first fighter I met in a long time didn't ax me to handcuff myself."
After Dempsey, Burke didn't see any need to ask anybody to handcuff himself. In fact, he was the first to know it when Dempsey began to lose it all. "I told him before the Tunney fight, 'Jack, you know you can't fight anymore. Tunney shouldn't lose a round.'" It turned out, Tunney didn't. Not even the one he was knocked down in for 14 seconds in the second fight.
Marty drifted around the fight game for several more years after that -- or until he got knocked out in one round by Young Stribling. "Five years before, Stribling couldn't have hit me with a handful of birdseed."
Back in New Orleans, Marty opened a French Quarter saloon so tough the shore patrol used to walk it in platoon strength. Some of Marty's last fights were with longshoreman half his age and twice his weight and one night when business was good, Marty sat down after he had stacked a few customers in a neat pile outside the front door, and reached in his mouth and extracted three teeth by hand which had already been loosened by fists.
He spoke in a lisp as he inspected the bloody molars. "I wonder," he questioned, "how Dempsey missed these?"
Thi
Click to expand...

:good:good:goodGOOD READ

pugilist_boyd · Mar 14, 2009

Dempsey was only 70% of the fighter he once was when he fought tunney,he had lost the hunger or as mic from rocky said he(got civilized)he wasnt as fast his footwork not as good and didnt slip and bob as well as he once did what happend to dempsey happens to fighters sometimes he lost the hunger and became old overnight.i believe if the 1927 tunney met the 1919 dempsey it would have been a painfull night for tunney

janitor · Mar 14, 2009

Seamus said: ↑

Got schooled by Tunney.

Seriously, he won 1 out of 20 rounds against the great Gene.
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How is that relevant to this discusion?

It isnt like he lost because he was holding back out of compasion for Tunney.

Quickhands21 · Mar 14, 2009

pugilist_boyd said: ↑

Dempsey was only 70% of the fighter he once was when he fought tunney,he had lost the hunger or as mic from rocky said he(got civilized)he wasnt as fast his footwork not as good and didnt slip and bob as well as he once did what happend to dempsey happens to fighters sometimes he lost the hunger and became old overnight.i believe if the 1927 tunney met the 1919 dempsey it would have been a painfull night for tunney
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If they met in 1919 it would have been still Dempseys best opponent.difference is Gene would have schooled a prime Jack

janitor · Mar 14, 2009

Quickhands21 said: ↑

If they met in 1919 it would have been still Dempseys best opponent.difference is Gene would have schooled a prime Jack
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What exactly makes you think that Tunney was Dempseys best oponent?

If you take away his wins over Dempsey his heavyweight record is prety average.

Arguing that he was the best because hye beat Dempsey and the others didnt is somewhat circular logic.

Bummy Davis · Mar 14, 2009

I dont think Jack had the legs in those Tunney fights that he had earlier in his career. Tunney had great legs (up there with Ali and Walcott) But i do think a earlier more active version of Dempsey would not let Gene survive the long count...Dempsey was not prime for Tunney, Gene was.....Tunney would have been a wrong fight for him at any stage but Jack may have stopped Gene a few years back....and mabey not....How good was Tunney....did he present the same threat as Firpo...He was better and bigger than Carpentier....Brennen, Miske....Sharkey was more there to be hit......Tunney was experienced and skilled and had some pop...was he better than Patterson? where does he stand next to Walcott and Charles

rekcutnevets · Mar 14, 2009

Originally Posted by Seamus
Got schooled by Tunney.

Seriously, he won 1 out of 20 rounds against the great Gene.
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I'm glad you brought this up, it influenced my decision.

Dempsey and Marciano are the only "mean" fighters mentioned here that never quit in the ring. Just look at the way Dempsey unloaded on Tunney when he got the chance to knock him down. Not bad for a fighter to win only 2 out of 20 rounds.

I believe that in being the "meanest", resilience must come into play. You are much scarier if your opponent thinks you're never going to stop.

Bummy Davis · Mar 15, 2009

rekcutnevets said: ↑

I'm glad you brought this up, it influenced my decision.

Dempsey and Marciano are the only "mean" fighters mentioned here that never quit in the ring. Just look at the way Dempsey unloaded on Tunney when he got the chance to knock him down. Not bad for a fighter to win only 2 out of 20 rounds.

I believe that in being the "meanest", resilience must come into play. You are much scarier if your opponent thinks you're never going to stop.
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yes a serious mean fighter with no quit that keeps coming and always waiting.....Tyson was mean but gave in when presented with obstinance.....where as obstinance motorvated Marciano to pick it up a notch.....Foreman was mean but like Vince Lombardi says "Fatigue makes a coward of us all" ....Marciano was the exception to that rule and Frazier was another that would not give up

guilalah · Mar 15, 2009

http://mx.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070820115300AAsIYE7

This is supposed to be a Harry Wills interview; unfortunately, no citation given.

If it's genuine, Wills discusses another sort of 'meanness', ie mean-spiritedness.

"I've met some hard punchers in my time, but the hardest ever landed on me were like slaps in the face from a woman compared to the bone-crushing wallops of Sam Langford. They seemed to go right through you. When he hit you in the body you'd kind of look around half expecting to see his glove sticking out of your back. When he hit you on the chin- well, when that happened you didn't think at all until they brought you back to life again.

"Sam McVey was a good fighter, but not a good fellow like Joe Jeanette or Langford. He had a mean streak in him and liked to boast. He used a lot of tricks that were unfair. He also had a left hook that was the best I ever saw, speedy and accurate.

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"He was smart in many ways, but in others he showed no sense at all. He got so stuck on himself he had the idea that everyone should fall down and worship him. He was a show off who wanted to attract attention all the time and didn't care much how he did it. As long as he made people talk about him he was happy, and he never stopped to think that he was doing himself more harm than good.

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GPater11093 · Mar 15, 2009

bob fitzsimmons looked a right scary mofo. Lol

Primadonna Kool · Mar 15, 2009

Lennox Lewis had a split personality.

Mohak · Mar 15, 2009

markedwardscott said: ↑

Dempsey fought every minute like he wanted to kill his opponent. Got mean as a hobo riding the trains.
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Constantly running into hungry homo hobo's would do that to you.

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