Frazier vs. Marciano

Oh wow, well, that settles that then.

:rofl:rofl:rofl

 

Look ,you said Frazier did not mark up badly at all.
I pointed out to you that you were totally wrong, and gave the three Ali fights as examples ,can't you just accept you were wrong?
You have a history of making sweeping statements ,and ,when you are called on them, ignoring the replies. ie Bob Foster was winning against Ali etc.
Marciano had two cuts in fights that were potentially fight ending ,the split nose he sufffered against Charles in their second fight and the cut eyebrow he sustained against Keene Simmons.Rocky had a gash high on his hair line in the first Walcott fight ,but he DID NOT" routinely pick up possibly fight ending cuts" . Another unsubstantiated ,sweeping statement.Frazier 's face was a mass of lumps in ALL THREE fights .Marciano took as much ,I would say more punishment from Walcott in their first fight, than Frazier did against Ali, yet he was relatively unmarked after the fight ,as photos attest to.

 

Rocky Marciano by a late ko..note 1971 frazier will win..good fight..

 

I think this is a ridiculous statement. Did you even watch the whole Marciano-Walcott fight? And did you even watch the whole Ali-Frazier fight?

 

Yes to both questions.

 

I put that in because some people claim that Rocky was a 2 fisted fighter and had a great left hook as well as a great right cross. Most experts that saw him box, don't agree. They do agree that he had a Great right cross and only a fair left hook.

Frazier had a Great left hook and a fair right cross. Bert Sugar stated that his left hook was 2nd only to Dempsey's. Nat Fleischer rated Frazier as the best body puncher ever, and the 2nd most aggressive fighter, only behind Henry Armstrong. He also rated Rocky as one of the best punchers, behind Dempsey and Baer and the most courageous.

As I stated before, I think the Frazier that fought Ali in their 1st fight, would get the better of Rocky. He was faster, hit just as hard if not harder, could take a punch, and was approx. 20 pounds heavier.

As far as who took the more punishment, Frazier against Ali 1 or Rocky against Walcott 1, all you got to do is watch the tapes and know what happen to both after the bouts. Frazier spent time in the hospital during the ensuing week and Rocky went home.

 

frazier may be 20lb heavier(a little fluff around the midsection too), but he was not stronger than rocky marciano

 

I politely disagree with you McVey.

I would say Marciano took the most punishment in his fight with Ezzard Charles. The hooks that Charles landed almost caved in the right side of Marciano's face and vice-versa. Marciano's face sure wouldn't look pristine if he ate the same amount of jabs and right hands that Frazier did against Ali during their fights.

By the way, Frazier was nowhere near puffed up or swelled in the 2nd fight with Ali like the FOTC or Manilla because Ali's punches were mostly pittypat/shoeshine in the rematch. One right hand shot to the side of Frazier's head in the second round almost had him down, and he might have been knocked down if Perez didn't goof up thinking he heard the bell.
Ali spent most of the rematch pushing down on Frazier's head, mugging, hugging and holding whenever he could, so he couldn't have landed enough punches to make Frazier swell significantly. Over 12 rounds with his illegal tactics, it's just not possible.

 

I agree to disagree because Frazier had pretty strong legs and was one of the hardest body punchers in heavyweight history. Rocky may have slightly more upper body strength to Frazier but overall, he's not stronger than Frazier.

 

Perhaps he was, perhaps he wasn't. But since they would fighting at close quarters for just about the whole fight Frazier would make his extra weight to bear. If two fighters, with stamina being more or less equal, fight in close, the smaller fighter should be the one to tire first.

And Frazier had no fluff around the midsection at 204.

 

Neither did he hit harder.

 

I would pick prime Frazier by late round K.O, However if Marciano caught Frazier with a couple of crisp Suzy Q's he could K.O Frazier as well. It is definitely not going the distance.

 

I'll try and dig out some pics for you .The cover of a BI of that time showed Frazier lumpy and puffy after the second fight.
Whether Marciano took more punishment from Charles or Walcott,is not the issue.Marciano said no one hurt him like Charles, but we are comparing Marciano and Frazier
I agree, Frazier was on the verge of going down when Perez goofed up as you say.

 

I would say ,from watching all the available film of Marciano,and coming up with Frazier that Marciano's left hook was better than Frazier's right cross.

I would say that Liston's left hook was harder than Frazier's ,Foreman 's too ,but Frazier threw his incessantly ,with power and accuracy, so its arguable,for me Frazier was NOT a top notch puncher,in the Foreman ,Baer, Liston ,Dempsey mould.