Frazier vs. Marciano

Marciano's right hand on Frazier's jaw in the first two rounds can not be overlooked.

(Walcott didn't want any more of it either)

 

That is an opinion not a fact. Ken Norton stated that Holyfield was far stronger than him would you go by a picture? Joe Louis picked Carnera up bodily . Dempsey picked up Firpo like a sack of flour. strength is not cosmetic.
I never said Marciano was stronger ,I'm challenging your assertion to the contrary I dont know ,and neither do you.See were I'm going now?
Jack Dempsey had slim legs yet he was very strong he applied pressure in every fight he was in and backed his opponents up, ditto Henry Armstrong , your argument is flawed.

 

A lot of those bouts that Marciano got credit for a KO, would have been a TKO's if they were fought in Frazier's era. A KO or TKO is counted as the same thing.

Ross 15-0-1 record looks very good until you look at who he fought. Before he fought Rocky, he only fought 2 boxers that had a winning record. One Bobby Jones 35-19-7, who was stopped in his last 3 bouts before his match with Ross and was again stopped after that bout. Wilfie Shanks 39-20-6 was the other, who was also stopped the last 3 times before he fought Ross and was 2-9 leading up to his match with Ross.

The 3 Ex-Heavyweight Champions:

Joe Louis was past his prime when he fought Marciano. His record was 61-1 with 52 KO's in his 1st 62 bouts. In his last 9 bouts before he fought Rocky, Louis was 8-1 with only 3 KO's.

Walcott was 38 years old and was beating Rocky in the 1st bout. Walcott was not noted for his chin.

Charles was also past his prime as well.

 

Fraziers ONLY Ko over a CHamp was scored over a Light Heavy Bob FOster ,who was stopped by EVERY top Heavyweight he met.
Many of Marcianos ko s were ONE PUNCH KNOCKOUTS ,AND THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN ONE PUNCH KOS IN ANY ERA.
TKOS? Marciano has them too ,19 of them to Frazier's 18.
FACT FRAZIER NEVER KOD A TOP TEN FIGHTER
FACT MARCIANO KOD 9, 4 OF THEM CHAMPS.
LOOK AT THE RESPECTIVE RECORDS OF THE MEN FRAZIER KOD AND COMPARE THEM WITH MARCIANO'S KO VICTIMS.
Walcott was 37 ,and he was beating Marciano ,till the roof fell on him!
ONE PUNCH KO! REMATCH? ONE PUNCH KO!
Show me Frazier's.

 

very true, I think some Big men like Marciano 5"11, Langford 5'8 Qwawi 5"7 Mickey Walker 5"7 Tua 5"10 Toney 5"9 are judged by height or weight...yet I know a lot of Big men that are short but abnormally strong...one of the tougest street fighters from my town but older were two brothers who were about 5"8 or so powerfull and rugged and could fight...they are street fighting legends and powerfull punchers...even at the age of 60 one of the men KO'd a 6'5 240lb muscular guy that was 32 yrs younger...these are exceptions to the rule but some people are freakishly strong.......Marciano was one of them......Frazier was strong also but I think Rocky was the tighter package with 2 fisted 1 punch power and great recupritive powers

 

Don't you think Frazier would've KO'd Quarry, Chuvalo, Ellis if those fights had been allowed to continue?

Quarry's face was ripped apart by Frazier and he was taking heavy punishment at the time both fights were stopped.

Chuvalo's orbital bone was fractured by Joe's left hook. As tough as he was, I don't see how he could've continued with that kind of an injury.

Ellis went down heavily and would've gone down for the count if Dundee had allowed him to continue.

 

I'll settle for one punch kos Frazier acheived over tomato cans,hows that?

 

How many one punch knockouts did Marciano have (against top opposition)?

I'd classify his wins over Walcott, Layne and Matthews as such. Maybe the Louis fight but Marciano had worn down the old Brown Bomber by the 8th and the last right hand that put Louis through the ropes was little more than a free shot with Joe defenseless on the ropes, the fight should've been stopped earlier.

Cockell, Savold, LaStarza, Moore and Charles were worn down.

 

Once again, Frazier would have done the same to all these guys BUT faster.

They also would have stopped counting if the boxer was out cool. If the bouts with Chuvalo, Quarry and Ellis continued, they too would have been counted out.

Joe had 27 KO's or TKO's in 37 bouts
Rocky had 43 KO's or TKO's in 49 bouts

Frazier stopped Chuvalo, Ramos, Quarry twice, Ellis twice, and Foster. He also beat Ali, Bugner & Bonavena twice.

Rocky stopped Layne, Louis, Light heavyweight Matthews, Walcott twice, Charles, LaStarza, Cockell and Moore. He also beat Charles & LaStarza by decision.

 

This was written by Monte D. Cox

Frazier or Marciano?

Marciano and Frazier are about equals. Both were swarming style heavyweights who came in low and attacked the body then ripped to the head. Both were tough fighters. With only one being able to fit in the top 10 what separates them? Is it Rocky's undefeated record but low level of opposition or Frazier's better opposition with losses to only men in the top 3? In the end I believe Frazier achieved a win that Marciano could never hope to duplicate by defeating Muhammad Ali in Superfight 1. Marciano would lose to both Ali and Foreman, the only men to ever beat Frazier and with all other things being equal Frazier did beat Ali in the biggest fight in heavyweight history. Frazier's better overall competition and big win over Ali gives him a spot in the top 10.

 

Although this would be a brutal fight I tend to lean toward Frazier in this one though not by much. Level of opposition is the deciding factor in my mind. Almost all of Marciano's opponenets (At least in his big fights) were older than he was. Walcott, Charles and Moore were all in thier mid to late thirties when Rocky met them and Louis was a shadow of his former self when Rocky beat him. Joe didn't enjoy that distinction. Plus Joe fought in an era where there were more quality big men which was pretty tough considering that Joe himself wasn't a big heavyweight. Just fighting 3 wars with the greatest HW champion of all time and winning one of them puts Joe a notch or two above Rocky in my opinion. Could Rocky beat Joe? Yes he could but he would have to do it early. If he doesn't and Frazier gets into his "groove" I see Joe cutting up Rocky and stopping him later in the fight. Joe and Rocky were somewhat similar in style but Frazier was faster and more consistent in his attack. More head movement and bobbing and weaving. Rocky can't let Joe get warm so to speak. If he does then it's Frazier and that's how I see the outcome of this classic.

 

Would he though?

I think that Frazier might have done better than Marciano against the mainly technical boxers who ruled the heavyweight division at the time.

Would he have scored more one punch KOs?

I verry much doubt it.

 

I've never understood this whole "one punch knock-out" thing. Yeah, Rocky floored guys for the count with a one or two good shots, and often he only had to knock them down the once, but most of the time these KO's came after several hard rounds of softening up. He didn't very often catch guys fresh out of the gate with one punch and KO them for good, he was an attrition puncher more than anything who wore his opponents down and then finished them off with a big shot or two.

 

Frazier stopped bigger, tougher guys than Marciano. Maybe they weren't better in an all-time sense than Walcott, Moore, or Charles, but especially at the time of the fights in question some of them were harder to stop and maybe more dangerous fighters. Who would win if prime versions of Quarry and Ellis went up against the old versions of Charles and Walcott Rocky fought?

 

Not the whole story.

These one punch Kos were not just part of an atrition sequence of punches that happened to pay off (ala Frazier). They were somtimes beutifuly timed and calculated, and above all were single punches.