Frazier vs. Marciano

There's no way this fight goes anywhere near ten rounds because their styles wouldn't allow it. It would be a miracle if it lasted 5. This fight is clearly a bombs away, head on colision between two beasts.

 

I think Charles and Walcott would have given Frazier very tough fights

 

I remember seeing the World Arm Wrestling Championships ,years ago the guy that won it was around 50 and not more than 190lbs he defeated giants of 250lbs,coincidently he was a former Marciano sparring partner.

 

peak charles and walcott would indeed give joe frazier a hard night.
marciano didn't fight either at their peaks and has a marginally better challenger list than dempsey.marciano has a big heart but frazier matches him in this department and would be able to bully him.
frazier by stoppage

 

True Charles and Walcott were aging ,but I would pick those versions to beat Ellis,Quarry,Bonavena, Mathis,Ramos just as comprehensively as Frazier did.

 

Very good point....I in fact the Lyle fight shows how Foreman may have had trouble with a real serious puncher, Lyle was a good puncher not a great puncher and he had big George close to the brink and Foreman himself stated that he avoided Quarry ....People assume because of the Frazier fight...Foreman would be victorious over anyone that met him head to head but Lyle was not one of the greats and not a puncher in the league of Dempsey,louis,Lewis or Marciano....every match up is different

 

I disagree here. Bonavena lost to a 33 year old zora folley by shutout decision. surely a 32 year old june 1954 version of ezzard charles would win every round if he fought bonavena, it wouldnt even be close. Louis even at 37 would bust up chuvalo and bonavena something horrible with his jab.

chuvalo might win 1 round out of 15 against 1952 walcott and 1954 charles...way too much skill and speed for chuvalo, even at that stage of there careers



Quarry would be a much tougher fight, but quarry couldnt beat slick boxers. a washed up 33 year old eddie machen beat quarry, I suspect 1954 charles and 1952 walcott would have there way with them

 

I have all for ratings from approx. 50 boxing historians & experts. I have talked to many of them and I asked they why they rate Rocky so high. They rate Rocky higher because he was unbeaten. On a head to head match-up most picked Frazier.

Age should not be an issue. Some boxers reach the top at a very young age and others don't reach their peak until they get much older. If we look at it the other way around, Frazier fought Ali at the age of 27, Rocky only fought 1 top 10 contender at that age.

After the 1st Ali bout, Frazier started to go down hill because of the beating he took. He had much harder bouts then Rocky had and Rocky never fought anyone with the punching power of Foreman. Again, if Rocky fought Ali and Foreman at the same time career wise, he would not be the same either.

If Walcott and Charles were in their prime, they would have given Rocky a run for his money too. Even when they were past their best days, they gave Rocky a good fight, just think what would happen if they fought him when they were in their primes.

Just to let you know, if you go by his overall career, I still rate Rocky in my Top 10.

 

if quarry couldn't beat an old eddie machen, how is he going to beat "old" walcott and charles?

Ellis was lucky to escape with a gift decision over 33 year old floyd Patterson who broke elli's nose, yet 32 year old charles can't do better?

like who?


Marciano knocked out 6'2 214lb Joe Louis, who was rated # 2 in the world at the time. Louis had been just stopped once in 70 prior bouts. What fighter did frazier ever knockout that was as big and as highly rated as louis was? what big fighter did frazier ever stop that had only been knocked out once in 70 bouts?

How were they more dangerous? Did they have better skills than walcott, charles and louis? did they have better defense? better technique? were they faster? Walcott had just knocked out a prime charles in 1951 right before facing marciano. Charles had just knocked out two top 10 contenders out cold bob satterfield and colley wallace in 1954, what top contenders did chuvalo and bonavena knock out cold?


harder to stop? Louis had not been floored in 4 years prior to the marciano fight including going 15 with a peak ezzard charles. louis stopped just once in 70 fights prior.


Ezzard Charles had been just stopped once in 8 prior years leading up to the marciano fight, despite facing some very big punchers. Valdez, Wallace, Satterfield, Louis, Haynes, Layne....All these big powerful hitters could not stop Charles.


Walcott had been stopped just once in 12 YEARS prior to the marciano fight, by none other than some guy named joe louis. Not to mention the slew of big punchers he fought(Hatchetman Sheppard, Lee Q Murray, Tommy Gomez, Elmer Ray, Hein Ten Hoff, Rex Layne). Not to mention he was CHAMPION, which sparks alot of confidence to hold on to your belt. I would say thats a man whos hard to stop!



Rex Layne? if you dont think he could take a punch, take a look at this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKUlBPErrn0


Roland Lastarza had never been stopped in his 56 prior bouts leading up to the title shot



Archie Moore could take a punch. He fought many punchers over 200lb. His record against heavyweights over 200lb? 22-1 with 19 kayos!!!!

 

If they were in their prime I would agree with you BUT they weren't. Walcott and Charles were on their way down when they fought Rocky. I do think they still could have beaten Mathis, Ramos and maybe Bonavena at that time.

 

Walcott's career is a tad dicey when trying to determine at which point he was in his prime, given that he blossomed somewhat late. It would be interesting to do a poll and see when posters felt he was at the top of his game. Frankly, I think he looked pretty good against Marciano despite being 37. Though I suppose an argument could be made for him being a bit better against Louis maybe 3 years earlier.

 

Walcott knocked out a prime charles in 1951, what makes you say he was over the hill? Chuvalo has no chance in hell against 1952 walcott. walcott was HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION.

 

Joe Louis was past his prime before he fought Marciano. His record was 61-1 with 52 KO's in his 1st 62 bouts. In his last 9 bouts before he fought Rocky, Louis was 8-1 with only 3 KO's.

An Interview with Roland LaStarza

Former Golden Gloves champ and heavyweight contender Roland LaStarza was unable to join us today. However, he shared these stories about his career and wished everyone in attendance well.

On fighting Rocky Marciano: "I won the first fight. Everyone thought I won the first fight except the referee. One judge scored it for me, the ref and the other judge gave it to Marciano. All the newspaper guys gave me the decision.

"The second fight, ruined me. It was easy at first. Then in maybe the sixth round I blocked a punch with my left arm and my left was gone. I blocked one of his right hands and that was it. I hurt that arm in training and when I blocked that punch I damaged blood vessels in my arm. I stood there and took a beating until the 11th. "If I had one word to describe Rocky it would be relentless. I would throw a right hand, he would throw a right hand. But the difference was Rocky would throw 10. He didn't hit me the hardest, but he hit me the most often. Don't get me wrong, Rocky was a great fighter. He was tough and he never stopped throwing punches."


Charles, wasn't the same after being caught by Walcott. Charles was 69-5-1 with 40 KO's before that bout with Walcott and counting that bout he was 24-20 with 12 KO's for the rest of his career. He also lost to Nino Valdes and Harold Johnson just 10 months before he fought Rocky. When Charles stopped Satterfield, it was the 10th time Satterfield was stopped during his career. Wallace was stopped by Bivins and Brothers before he fought Charles.

Moore was one of the best Light Heavyweights ever. After being stopped by Rocky in 9 rounds, he won his next 11 in a row with 8 KO's, then Patterson stopped him in only 5 rounds.

 

In Walcott's last 19 bouts of his career, he was 10-9. Sure he lost to some Great names, Louis (2), Charles (2), Rocky (2) Maxim & Ray once each and he did beat them both in return goes in very close decisions and Rex Layne. When he fought Rocky the 1st time, he was over 38-1/2 years old, and when he fought him again he was well over 39.

If he thought he still had it, he would have continued his career, BUT he didn't

 

I don't think Foreman blows out the Joe Frazier from 1967 - 1970. This version of Frazier gives Foreman a much tougher battle than what he showed in 1973. Who wins is a different story. Anyone who remembers Foreman's destruction of Frazier in 1973 knows that Big George didn't fight the same conditioned fighter that beat Ali in the FOTC.

In Uniondale 1976, this version of Frazier had nothing to offer in the rematch against Foreman after leaving everything in the ring against Ali in Manilla. Only his fighting heart and pride got him through four rounds against Foreman, albeit wearing contact lenses. Prime Frazier was much quicker moving his head and pressuring his opponent. He would have definitely been able to land to the body against Foreman.

As for Marciano vs Frazier, I'd bet on Frazier to stop Marciano before the late rounds. Nobody in heavyweight history, with the exception of Tyson was as deadly a body puncher as Frazier.