ATG: Who Ranks Higher? Morales or Calzaghe?

Morales by a mile

 

This thread does a fantastic job with putting Joe Calzaghe in perfect perspective.

Erik Morales and its not close, in my estimation. He beat the better fighters, and at multiple weight classes. Great fighter, will probably be even more appreciated as time passes, which is scary considering how respected he already is.

 

When i saw the title for this thread i thought someone had to be taking the ****.

Now that i see its an avid ******* i'm no longer in shock.

 

Morales, however, neither are all time greats IMO. Modern greats, yes...

 

2nd best 122lb pounder ever, three-weight world champion, 2 wins over 2 prime top 100 ATGS, and was in some of the most memorable fights we have ever witnessed.

Easily an ATG. No argument.

 

That's a matter of opinion and anyway it's a relatively young division. I prefer to look at who guys beat and he basically beat six world class 122lbers - Acero-Sanchez, Zaragoza, Jones, Chi, McCullough and Barrera. Not bad, but I set the bar for ATG status VERY high. I think that term is far too overused these days. To be an ATG in my eyes, you have to be a fighter who will still be remembered clearly in 30-40 years, to have done things nobody else (or very few) have or could do. No knock against Morales, he's a modern great but not ATG for me. Even being a three weight world champ is devalued these days with the sheer number of belts arising.

For the record, the only fighters of my era (early-mid 90s onwards) I class as ATG are Jones, Hopkins, Whitaker, Chavez, Mayweather, Holyfield, Pacquiao and maybe Azumah Nelson, Ricardo Lopez and Lennox Lewis (I think the bar has to be slightly lower for guys at the extreme ends of the weight scale as division hopping isn't really open to them in the way that it is to others).

 

[quote="TKO";3654438]That's a matter of opinion and anyway it's a relatively young division. I prefer to look at who guys beat and he basically beat six world class 122lbers - Acero-Sanchez, Zaragoza, Jones, Chi, McCullough and Barrera. Not bad, but I set the bar for ATG status VERY high. I think that term is far too overused these days. To be an ATG in my eyes, you have to be a fighter who will still be remembered clearly in 30-40 years, to have done things nobody else (or very few) have or could do. No knock against Morales, he's a modern great but not ATG for me. Even being a three weight world champ is devalued these days with the sheer number of belts arising.

For the record, the only fighters of my era (early-mid 90s onwards) I class as ATG are Jones, Hopkins, Whitaker, Chavez, Mayweather, Holyfield, Pacquiao and maybe Azumah Nelson, Ricardo Lopez and Lennox Lewis (I think the bar has to be slightly lower for guys at the extreme ends of the weight scale as division hopping isn't really open to them in the way that it is to others).[/quote]

I have Erik Morales above Lopez in the ATG rankings, and I think his best wins surpass Mayweathers. Morales/Barrera 1 and the entire trilogy will live on forever, will never be forgotten, and neither will the two fighters who participated in the three fights. Morales is an ATG, he will be talked about still in 40 years, people will watch his fights still, and most importantly, his resume, longevity, and skill set demand universal respect.

 

Neither will Ward-Gatti trilogy be forgotten. Doesn't make them ATGs. I just don't think he's got that crucial "something nobody else (or harldy anyone) has done" bit that does it for me. Holy, for example, a cruiserweight champ going up and becoming undisputed heavy. RJJ winning and dominating from middle to heavy. FMJ totally dominant and world champ at five weights. JCC 90-0 before he got beat. Hopkins clowning p4p entrants at 43! Pac moving up to dominate at 7 weight classes or something stupid like that! Don't take it as a knock on Morales, I like him as a fighter, I just set the bar extremely high for ATG status, i.e. only the very creme de la creme.

Agree about the resume, longevity, warrior's heart and skill set and the respect thing, don't get me wrong!

 

[quote="TKO";3654497]Neither will Ward-Gatti trilogy be forgotten. Doesn't make them ATGs. I just don't think he's got that crucial "something nobody else (or harldy anyone) has done" bit that does it for me. Holy, for example, a cruiserweight champ going up and becoming undisputed heavy. RJJ winning and dominating from middle to heavy. FMJ totally dominant and world champ at five weights. JCC 90-0 before he got beat. Hopkins clowning p4p entrants at 43! Pac moving up to dominate at 7 weight classes or something stupid like that! Don't take it as a knock on Morales, I like him as a fighter, I just set the bar extremely high for ATG status, i.e. only the very creme de la creme.

Agree about the resume, longevity, warrior's heart and skill set and the respect thing, don't get me wrong![/quote]

I just think in this day and age, being world champion has become a lot easier now we have ABC titles all over the place. With that in mind, I rank fighters primarily on who they have defeated, and Morales and Barrera both beat great opposition, but most importantly, were at the top of the game for a substantial period of time.

They both have a resume comparable to the majority of names on the list you just mentioned, and I think they outright beat better opposition than both Mayweather and Lopez, two fighters you classify as ATG's. I don't take offense as such, but I feel so passionate about fighters who have been in this game for so long, taking defeats, too come back stronger. Morales and Barrera both did that, they dazzled us for so long. I couldn't ever imagine them not being considered ATG's.

 

I'm a fan of Morales but I'd say Calzaghe had the better skills.

 

Did he prove it against the best competition the world had to offer at the time? I don't think he did, whereas Morales fought the best 122lb fighter other than himself and beat him, went neck and neck with the best 126lb of the last 15 years (in my opinion), and then despite being past his best and coming off a defeat, beat a prime Manny Pacquiao above his best weight. Extraordinary.

 

Fair. Each to their own. :good